Evidence of meeting #41 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was volunteer.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gina Wilson  Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, Department of Canadian Heritage
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Caroline Bosc
Rachel Wernick  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Stephanie Hébert  Assistant Deputy Minister, Program Operations Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Paula Speevak  President and Chief Executive Officer, Volunteer Canada

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Were you aware that the Prime Minister's mother and brother had been paid by WE Charity to speak at its events?

4:55 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

No, I wasn't.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Very well.

Did you talk to the minister about the relationship between members of Mr. Trudeau's family and WE Charity?

4:55 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

The department did not conduct or provide any assessment of potential conflicts of interest by public office holders. The onus is on the public office holders to uphold the guidelines.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

I know. Pardon me, but all I asked was whether you had spoken to the minister, Ms. Chagger, or another minister about the ties between the Trudeau family and the charity you were recommending at the time.

4:55 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

No. I didn't have any discussions on that.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

If I understood the explanation earlier correctly, the distinction you make between a contract and a contribution agreement is this. For a contract, you put out a call for tenders, whereas for a contribution agreement, you put out a call for proposals. Is that right?

4:55 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

That's not quite right. Once again, I'm a bit too nervous to keep going in this language, so I'm going to switch languages.

There's a big difference between transfer payment policy and procurement policy. Under the transfer payment policy, we negotiate agreements with partners, and there are various mechanisms for entering into those negotiations. It can be through an open call. It can be through a solicited proposal. It can be through an unsolicited proposal. Here again, I take you back to April and the context of the crisis the government was in, when a determination was made that negotiating a contribution agreement with a partner was the fastest and most appropriate path forward, particularly as this was involving programming for youth and the government does not do direct delivery—

5 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Don't you still have to put out a call for proposals to seek submissions before awarding a contribution agreement?

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

This is your last question, Mr. Fortin.

5 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

There is no specific exigence—I'm sorry, now I'm talking Franglais—requirement to hold an open call for proposals.

I will ask my colleague, who is an expert in this, to provide the committee with additional information.

5 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Program Operations Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Stephanie Hébert

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When we receive a proposal directly from an organization, even when it's not related to a call for proposals, we always have to make sure it meets the program criteria and can achieve the program objectives. That analysis always has to be done.

5 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Did you put out a call for proposals? That was the question.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I'm sorry, Mr. Fortin. You're out of time.

5 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Mr. Chair, I'm trying to find out whether there was a call for proposals. Aren't you listening to the questions? I asked a straightforward question. They beat around the bush for five minutes.

Sorry, Mr. Chair, but I want to know whether a call for proposals should have been put out. They explained that the proposals were analyzed, and I have no doubt they were, but I want to know whether there was a call for proposals.

5 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

Mr. Chair, I can answer that. There was no call for proposals.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

There was no call for proposals, Ms. Wernick said.

Did you finish your answer, Ms. Hébert? Okay.

Then we'll turn to Mr. Angus. You have around six minutes, Charlie. We've been running over a fair bit.

Go ahead. The floor is yours.

5 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Are we going to go with the standard we've been using in the House? I'm going to keep my questions short, and if we could get short answers, that way—

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I will try reasonably. Keep in mind that I do not mind committee members browbeating politicians—we're used to it—but I don't want to see that happen with public servants.

Go ahead, and we'll give it a try. The floor is yours.

5 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Ms. Wernick.

Prior to the announcement on April 19, if I understand you, there was a proposal from WE that was circulating. It wasn't the same proposal, but it was a proposal. Is that correct?

5 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

That's correct.

5 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Do you know where that proposal was circulated?

5 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

As I mentioned previously, I would prefer to provide that to the committee in writing, to ensure completeness and accuracy of information.

5 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Certainly. Would you provide the proposal as well?

5 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

Yes, this is possible.