Finance Committee on July 16th, 2020

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Were you aware that the Prime Minister's mother and brother had been paid by WE Charity to speak at its events?

[Rachel Wernick]

No, I wasn't.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Very well.

Did you talk to the minister about the relationship between members of Mr. Trudeau's family and WE Charity?

[Rachel Wernick]

The department did not conduct or provide any assessment of potential conflicts of interest by public office holders. The onus is on the public office holders to uphold the guidelines.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I know. Pardon me, but all I asked was whether you had spoken to the minister, Ms. Chagger, or another minister about the ties between the Trudeau family and the charity you were recommending at the time.

[Rachel Wernick]

No. I didn't have any discussions on that.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

If I understood the explanation earlier correctly, the distinction you make between a contract and a contribution agreement is this. For a contract, you put out a call for tenders, whereas for a contribution agreement, you put out a call for proposals. Is that right?

[Rachel Wernick]

That's not quite right. Once again, I'm a bit too nervous to keep going in this language, so I'm going to switch languages.

There's a big difference between transfer payment policy and procurement policy. Under the transfer payment policy, we negotiate agreements with partners, and there are various mechanisms for entering into those negotiations. It can be through an open call. It can be through a solicited proposal. It can be through an unsolicited proposal. Here again, I take you back to April and the context of the crisis the government was in, when a determination was made that negotiating a contribution agreement with a partner was the fastest and most appropriate path forward, particularly as this was involving programming for youth and the government does not do direct delivery—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Don't you still have to put out a call for proposals to seek submissions before awarding a contribution agreement?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

This is your last question, Mr. Fortin.

[Rachel Wernick]

There is no specific exigence—I'm sorry, now I'm talking Franglais—requirement to hold an open call for proposals.

I will ask my colleague, who is an expert in this, to provide the committee with additional information.

[Stephanie Hébert]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When we receive a proposal directly from an organization, even when it's not related to a call for proposals, we always have to make sure it meets the program criteria and can achieve the program objectives. That analysis always has to be done.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Did you put out a call for proposals? That was the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'm sorry, Mr. Fortin. You're out of time.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'm trying to find out whether there was a call for proposals. Aren't you listening to the questions? I asked a straightforward question. They beat around the bush for five minutes.

Sorry, Mr. Chair, but I want to know whether a call for proposals should have been put out. They explained that the proposals were analyzed, and I have no doubt they were, but I want to know whether there was a call for proposals.

[Rachel Wernick]

Mr. Chair, I can answer that. There was no call for proposals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

There was no call for proposals, Ms. Wernick said.

Did you finish your answer, Ms. Hébert? Okay.

Then we'll turn to Mr. Angus. You have around six minutes, Charlie. We've been running over a fair bit.

Go ahead. The floor is yours.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Are we going to go with the standard we've been using in the House? I'm going to keep my questions short, and if we could get short answers, that way—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I will try reasonably. Keep in mind that I do not mind committee members browbeating politicians—we're used to it—but I don't want to see that happen with public servants.

Go ahead, and we'll give it a try. The floor is yours.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Ms. Wernick.

Prior to the announcement on April 19, if I understand you, there was a proposal from WE that was circulating. It wasn't the same proposal, but it was a proposal. Is that correct?

[Rachel Wernick]

That's correct.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Do you know where that proposal was circulated?

[Rachel Wernick]

As I mentioned previously, I would prefer to provide that to the committee in writing, to ensure completeness and accuracy of information.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Certainly. Would you provide the proposal as well?

[Rachel Wernick]

Yes, this is possible.