Finance Committee on July 30th, 2020

[Katie Telford]

They are.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Could you give us an idea of how many other programs have gone through the COVID committee and/or cabinet during this time period since this committee was formed?

I know there are many things on the go right now.

[Katie Telford]

I am not sure how many exactly, and I don't want to guess, but there have been, as I mentioned, the Canada emergency wage benefit, the CERB, the programs for seniors, vaccine development, the manufacturing sector and bio-manufacturing. It's an endless number of programs. This is going to keep going for quite some time. They're doing, as you said, a lot of work.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Through all these programs that you mentioned—and there are more that you didn't mention—is the advice of the public service taken on the implementation of all these different programs? Is there a mechanism for input from the public service?

[Katie Telford]

Absolutely. Everything that comes as a memorandum to cabinet is something that is crafted by the public service.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I want to ask one final question, because it's very important to me. The opportunity to help students through a summer volunteer program was brought to cabinet, and a decision was either to make it happen or not to do anything about it. I'm glad that cabinet decided to go forward. Unfortunately, it rather went off the rails.

The need that was identified when initially cabinet was considering this program is still there. Is there opportunity to revisit this issue, maybe rejig the terms, maybe have a different agency deliver it, maybe change the time frame so that it goes even into October? Is there opportunity to do something like that to save what's left of the summer and maybe go into the fall to help the students? They still need the help.

[Katie Telford]

They do. Fortunately, this was one of many programs put in place to help young people. As I mentioned earlier—and this is not to diminish it at all—it was less than one-tenth of the package that was announced, even just for the COVID period. As some of your colleagues on the committee have previously mentioned, there's a long-standing Canada summer jobs program and other programs also in place to help youth.

Having said that, in terms of this program specifically, I know that the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth is looking at all the options. I hope that, as you're suggesting, something can be figured out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. We are a little over time.

We'll go to Mr. Morantz, followed by Mr. Fragiskatos.

Marty, the floor is yours.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Telford, I want to return to the question of the timeline that my colleague Mr. Poilievre was asking you about.

On April 22, the Prime Minister, from his front steps, announced this program, the Canada student service grant. You testified that you didn't learn about it until May 8 and that in fact you didn't know WE was being considered until May 8. In fact, you say the PMO policy people didn't speak to WE until May 5.

When the Prime Minister announced this program on April 22, how did the PMO think this program was going to be administered?

[Katie Telford]

Just to clarify for you, on April 22, when he announced the $9-billion aid package to support students through this time, you're right that he did announce as part of it the Canada summer student grant, but it was—

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

There was no plan for having it administered, though.

[Katie Telford]

There were a lot of things during this period, and it was important for us to be transparent with Canadians on what was coming. It was important for us to let students know that this kind of program was coming, and at that time—

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

But you said yourself—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Morantz—

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

—the Prime Minister said it was a binary—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Morantz—

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

How could he announce a program when he doesn't know how it was going to be administered?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Morantz, it took you—

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I'm just asking a fair question, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I know, but you took about 50 seconds to ask the question. I'll give Ms. Telford, without interruption, the same time to answer.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

It does stretch credulity though, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Ms. Telford.

[Katie Telford]

At the time, and I believe the Prime Minister spoke to this when he appeared before committee earlier, he believed that the option for administering the program might be the Canada Service Corps, which he'd long been looking at and working on. He was, I think, a bit disappointed much later when he learned that the only way it could be done was to go to a third party organization for the purposes of this summer.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

In other words, the Prime Minister announced the program, a $9-billion program, part of which is the Canada summer student benefit, and really had nothing nailed down as to how it would be delivered. In fact, on May 8 he was advised that it was a binary choice, that it was WE or nothing, and it ended up being nothing. It just stretches credulity.

Let me ask you this: In your long tenure in politics and as the chief of staff, have you ever had a situation before in which a program was announced, and you and the office you're responsible for had no idea how it was going to be administered?

[Katie Telford]

There are a lot of things that have happened in the last number of months that I don't think any of you on this committee or any of us in government have experienced before. Actually, something really important that this government has been doing is letting Canadians know what's coming and what we're working on, and being extremely transparent, including by saying that things will not be perfect and that we'll need to adjust as we go.