Finance Committee on July 30th, 2020

[Katie Telford]

So, first of all, again as I said in my opening remarks and as the Prime Minister referred to and I believe the Clerk of the Privy Council made reference to as well, I did have questions on May 8 and had some concerns. I had concerns about ensuring that this was the right organization to do this, that it was truly the only organization that could do this, that all of the t's had been crossed and the i's had been dotted.

Yes, as I said in my opening remarks, I had some concerns about the perception, knowing that Sophie Grégoire Trudeau's podcasts had just recently been launched, but I also knew that the Ethics Commissioner had cleared that and so, on that basis, we decided to proceed, and I support the Prime Minister on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We have to go back to Mr. Fortin for a last question.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Ms. Telford, you're telling us that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner gave the go-ahead for Mr. Trudeau to do as he did, awarding the contract to the WE organization and participating in the decision-making process, despite the appearance of conflicts of interest. Is that what you're saying?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Telford.

[Katie Telford]

What I said, which I also said in my opening remarks, is that we had clearance from the Ethics Commissioner for Sophie Grégoire Trudeau to do the work she was doing with the WE organization.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That wasn't the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fortin, we're out of time in that round.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I question the witnesses in French, so I lose roughly 20% to 30% of my speaking time because of the interpretation delay. On top of that, the answers I'm getting don't correspond to the questions I've asked, and I can't address the witness, who clearly can't understand what I'm saying, anyways.

The interpretation is so poor, Mr. Chair, that you, yourself, are having to translate my questions for the witnesses. I say that with all due respect, because you're doing a good job of it. Just think how much time that leaves me as compared with the members from the other parties, especially since we have way less time than the Conservatives and the Liberals, to begin with.

By the way, the Liberals are putting us through commercial breaks, here. They've asked the witnesses to toot their own horn and to say how good and smart the Prime Minister is. I am therefore asking for speaking time equivalent to what the Conservatives get, to be able to do my job properly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. Fortin. I do believe you have a legitimate concern. When you're asking questions, I have a hard time keeping up, because I have to wait for translation too. We'll have to deal with that at a committee level some time, but I think it is a concern.

Mr. Julian, you have a six-minute round and will be followed by Mr. Cooper.

Mr. Julian, go ahead.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks, Ms. Telford, for being here today. We appreciate your being available for the full two hours.

I have a couple of quick questions to start. You mentioned earlier fully co-operating with the Ethics Commissioner. We'll recall, of course, that with the previous scandal, the SNC-Lavalin scandal, the Ethics Commissioner said 11 months ago that he was “unable to fully discharge the investigatory duties conferred upon me” because he wasn't getting the documentation from the PMO and the PCO.

Can you state that you are willing to co-operate with the Ethics Commissioner and also with this committee and provide all of the documentation, including the recommendations that went forward on May 8 and May 22 concerning the WE program?

[Katie Telford]

Of course, I've always been happy to co-operate and coordinate with the Ethics Commissioner and will continue to do so. In terms of documents, I would have to look into.... I'm not sure what documents you're looking for, but I'm happy to look into any specific requests.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

The specific request is for the memos that went to cabinet on May 8 and May 22. Those are very specific requests, and the PCO has already indicated that they will be providing those to us, and we would appreciate having the co-operation of the PMO.

We know that you have a background with both WE and its predecessor organization. Have you or any member of your family, either directly or indirectly, through Artbound ever received expense reimbursement, free travel, financial payments or the use of WE staff time?

[Katie Telford]

No.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

My third question is around Mr. Morneau's deep connections with WE. Were you aware of Mr. Morneau's family connections with the WE organizations?

[Katie Telford]

The only connection, which only really came back to me recently, was the fact that, as the Prime Minister mentioned, his daughter had written a book. When I saw the cover shown recently—I'm not sure if it was the front or the back—it did have a quote from a Kielburger on it. That was really the extent of my knowledge of the connections.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Were you aware of the private travel that was not reimbursed, the use of private aircraft? Were you aware of any of those cases with Mr. Morneau?

[Katie Telford]

Not until recently.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Were you aware that WE used their staff on staff time and basically provided them with expense reimbursements to help fill seats and act as backdrops at Mr. Morneau's events?

[Katie Telford]

No.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Given those direct benefits, would you agree that Mr. Morneau was clearly in a conflict of interest around this WE proposal?

[Katie Telford]

Minister Morneau has already apologized and said he wished he had recused himself from this cabinet decision. I obviously support that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

If you believe he was in a conflict of interest, would that not apply to Mr. Trudeau as well?

[Katie Telford]

The Prime Minister has also recently said, and it was out of concern for perception, that he wished he'd recused himself from this. I support that as well.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

But you would agree that they were both in a conflict of interest—in other words, had contravened the Conflict of Interest Act.

[Katie Telford]

No. I think that is.... No.

What both of them said, .and what the Prime Minister said specifically was that he wished he had recused himself from this particular decision at cabinet so that there weren't any concerns around perception of favouritism.