Evidence of meeting #47 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Okay.
At the end of the day, Mr. Trudeau, do you not feel that you have betrayed the trust of Quebeckers and all Canadians by acting in this way?
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
You say that you apologized and that you even postponed the decision to give the mandate to WE, because you knew that there might be careful scrutiny. You postponed that decision. You knew you were in a conflict of interest.
Despite the fact that you knew it, you never asked to recuse yourself from the decision table. You knew it when you awarded the contract. You knew it when you voted at the cabinet table.
Why did you do that, Mr. Trudeau? Quebeckers feel betrayed, Mr. Trudeau.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Fortin, I was not in a conflict of interest. I am not in a conflict of interest in this situation.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
I apologized because, given the perceived connection to my family, it would have been easier. I should have recused to allow the program to move forward.
We were in a pandemic, as you well know, Mr. Fortin.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
You say that today, but why did you not do it at the beginning?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
During the pandemic, we had to quickly launch programs in innovative and quick ways to help people in different situations. That is exactly what we did.
As I said, when we announced the program, I was not aware that WE was part of it.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Mr. Trudeau, you were blamed in the Aga Khan matter and blamed in the SNC-Lavalin matter. You are now under investigation. Your Minister of Finance is under investigation.
When are you finally going to make the decision to step aside and ask Mr. Morneau to step down as Minister of Finance?
You are the one who is accountable. It is all very well to tell us that due diligence is up to public servants, but you are responsible for it.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Fortin, over the past four or five months we—the government and the Minister of Finance in particular—have provided assistance to millions and millions of Canadians who were in a terrible situation.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Mr. Fortin, your time is up.
The floor is the Prime Minister's, if he could finish, please.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
We are delivering programs that make a huge difference to Canadians and that remains our focus.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister and Mr. Fortin.
Mr. Angus, you have two and a half minutes, and then we'll move on to Mr. Poilievre.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Prime Minister, in 2017 after you were found guilty with the Aga Khan deal, you said you were going to work with the office of the Ethics Commissioner in the new year to ensure that as you went forward you would be in full and complete compliance with the rules and the rules in place. You tell us that you held back this project, you did the due diligence and you were aware that there were perceptions that might be problematic. We're not talking about perceptions. We're talking about breaches of the law.
In your due diligence, why did you not bother to talk to the Conflict of Interest Commissioner? It is so obvious, Mr. Trudeau, that these conflicts were there. Why did you think it didn't apply to you?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Angus, the public service came forward with a recommendation to cabinet to move forward either with this specific third party provider—that was WE Charity—or else not move forward with the program at all. That was the binary choice proposed to us. I did not influence the public service to choose this organization, and indeed, when the public service came forward with this organization, I said we should put the brakes on it to make sure we've done absolutely everything right because there are going to be questions because of the connections with my family on this.
Yes, in hindsight, I should have recused myself, and perhaps the program would be delivering for students across the country right now, but I did not. Instead, I put the brakes on it and said let's make sure that it is doing things the right way so that we don't have any communication or public problems.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
With all due respect, instead of continually throwing the public service under the bus, I'm asking about your judgment, about your legal obligations, because the real losers here are the young people. Statistics Canada says it's going to take five to seven years for them to recover from the damage. We had students asking why they were being denied CERB, asking why you were telling them that volunteerism was going to be great and that they could work for less than minimum wage. Students who have massive levels of debt don't have $41,000 cheques to cover their losses.
They were looking to you as their champion, and I'm really concerned, Mr. Prime Minister, that you think this issue of paying university students a fair wage is somehow an attack on volunteerism. To be the champion of youth isn't to do a high-five with Craig Kielburger. You need to—
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
None of the money got out, not a dime. These students are still waiting. You failed them.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
I'm happy to correct Mr. Angus.
The Canada emergency student benefit, since May 15, has given to 724,000 applicants a total value of $2.1 billion directly for students. That's part of the $9-billion package. The students' CERB has made a huge difference. The summer jobs we've created, the deferral of student loans.... Yes, I regret that we weren't able to—