Finance Committee on Feb. 6th, 2020

[Angie Sullivan, Volunteer and Patient Advocate, JDRF Canada]

Thank you, Dave.

My son Jake has lived with this disease since age 16. He's now 25. His current employment has zero benefits, and those benefits he was receiving previously through the Ontario government ended on his 25th birthday. This leaves him struggling to pay thousands of dollars for his next insulin pump, plus thousands more every year for insulin, for test strips, for pump supplies and for CGM sensors, not to mention the time and the cost of transportation to and from medical appointments.

It's heartbreaking to have your child tell you he's not eating properly and is limited in his ability to participate in sports and social activities because he can't afford to replace his costly supplies, or to hear that he's no longer replacing his glucagon, a hormone used by diabetics in an emergency to counter a severe low blood sugar event. Perhaps worst of all, I know he's rationing his insulin and pump supplies, and I'm afraid on a daily basis for his life and his long-term health care.

As a parent, I find it absolutely appalling that essential drugs and medical supplies are not covered 100%. Until such time as they are, the disability tax credit is at least some help for those who manage to qualify. I'd ask you to recommend to Canada's Minister of Finance that the DTC be fixed once and for all so that all Canadians with type 1 diabetes qualify. Please let them live a life that's fair and just, without penalty for a disease that they did not choose.

I'd like to thank JDRF and Dave for their work, and thank the committee for hearing our testimony. You'll find more information in JDRF's written pre-budget submission. We hope you'll consider our recommendations in your deliberations and final report. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both very much.

Mr. Leduc, senior vice-president of Technation, you're on.

[André Leduc, Senior Vice-President, Technation]

Mr. Chair and members of the finance committee, it's a privilege to be here today on behalf of Technation.

We're the national technology industry association. We represent over 300 employers, innovators and entrepreneurs, including homegrown small and medium-sized enterprises and multinational leaders in the technology space.

Our members work every day to foster a prosperous, responsible and secure digital economy for Canada. Our sector employs over one million Canadians. We are the driving force behind growing the Canadian economy into the future. In other words, the digital economy is the economy.

Our pre-budget brief consists of three themes, which will guide my comments today: a digital government, the digital economy and responsible technology.

Although the public sector—in other words, the federal, provincial, territorial and municipal governments—is a major purchaser of technological services, it is lagging behind in technology adoption.

That's in large part due to outdated procurement processes for IT products and services, which has long been acknowledged as a barrier that limits small and medium-sized enterprise participation, slows deployments of technologies in the public sector and limits the improved services that Canadians expect. In our submission we recommend that the federal government undertake pragmatic steps to innovate the procurement process, including developing a “commercial first” approach.

All parties agree on fighting climate change as an existential threat. Our sector is proud to be leading the way, with several of our Technation members already achieving net zero emissions for their companies. Our sector offers a unique opportunity for government to contribute to this work.

Federal government legacy data centres and the servers where government digital infrastructure is based are costly and inefficient. A large data centre can use enough energy in a single day to power 65,000 homes, with no more than 12% of that energy output typically used for actual computing. The remaining energy runs backup servers and maintains climate control. The Government of Canada owns and uses hundreds of data centres. Recently, the president of Shared Services Canada, Paul Glover, admitted that the public service doesn't actually know how many data centres they are running.

Technation advocates that as part of the work of the government to modernize, budget 2020 must invest in the transitioning from these inefficient and costly data centres to cloud computing. Taking this action will reduce energy use while improving service delivery to Canadians, and for our members, this would be a no-brainer.

Technation believes that the government must commit to transitioning 80% of its operations to the cloud by 2025. In addition, the government must also commit to providing all public sector services online over the next five years. Those objectives are reasonable, achievable and necessary for modernizing the Government of Canada, for providing digital services to Canadians and for keeping in step with technology.

ln 2018, the Governor of the Bank of Canada, Stephen Poloz, said, “Technological advances represent opportunities to be seized, not a force to be resisted”. ln May of last year, he commended the information technology sector, along with other service industries, for being the driving force behind Canada's economic growth.

We also know that Canada is at the cutting edge of the research and development of new technologies, with our education at the university and college levels among the best in the world. Let's take the example of artificial intelligence: we now have about 4,000 artificial intelligence businesses operating across Canada.

However, the majority of those businesses are not prospering. In simple terms, to remedy the incapacity of technology firms to develop in Canada, the 2020 budget must go along with a simple idea: we don't have an innovation problem in Canada, but rather a problem in terms of adopting our innovations.

Our submission recommends that budget 2020 review the SR and ED tax credit to incentivize start-ups to grow and scale. It also recommends that Canada invest in its skilled workforce, including reskilling and upskilling the public sector zone.

Finally, we advocate for smart infrastructure, including investments in rural connectivity, the deployment of 5G networks and the liberation of data for use by artificial intelligence.

Further, we advocate that the government commit in budget 2020 to creating the data frameworks necessary to unlock our economic potential.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Please sum up quickly.

[André Leduc]

By leading all levels of government, the Government of Canada can foster more user-friendly, adaptable and agile data that will allow technology such as AI to grow and innovate within our economy.

By investing in digital government and our digital economy, we can help Canadian SMEs grow in scale, we can help combat climate change and we can provide digital services to Canadians. This will lead to economic growth, fostering innovation and improving our international competitiveness.

I welcome your questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

For witnesses who didn't get to go through all of their remarks, those will be translated and given to committee members in any event.

We are going to have to really tighten it up. I'd like to get in as many as we can. There may be a couple of members who have to leave early, so that's fine too.

We'll start with Mr. Cumming for four minutes and then go over to Ms. Dzerowicz.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses, particularly you, Ms. Daenzer and Ms. Sullivan, for your very personal remarks. I very much appreciate your stories.

I would like to address most of my questions towards you, Mr. Kobly. You've painted a pretty dire picture of what's going on in Alberta right now with regard to business confidence and a high unemployment rate. I don't think you mentioned the flight of capital as well.

Can you elaborate on what we need to see in the province, on the ground with your members, as it relates to regulation, deregulation, access to markets and to capital, and all of those things that are really impeding Alberta's ability to grow and to grow the economy and employ people?

[Ken Kobly]

Thank you for the question. The feeling amongst our members is that the lack of confidence is based on all of those issues that you've cited, such as regulation—federal regulations. Currently, as you know, I'm sure, the Government of Alberta is looking at a red tape reduction strategy. They're making great strides towards that. That's helping with the level of confidence or lack of confidence.

Certainly, when you take a look at regulation, access to capital, taxation and regulations for the Income Tax Act, say, it's not just one of those items that is affecting the confidence level of Alberta businesses. You have to top onto that the uncertainty and the long and protracted period that we've had in trying to get approvals on pipelines to stick. We're waiting now for approval of the Teck Frontier mine, which I think is going to be a real test for the Government of Canada as to whether they approve it or not.

My point is that those individual one-offs on their own do affect confidence, but when you get a layering of those issues, one on top of the other, and when you get basically an overall negative outlook on the economy, certainly what it does, particularly for small businesses, is it sends businesses into a spiral of negativity, and that builds on itself.

You also can add to that the whole issue of Albertans and Alberta businesses feeling that over the last five to six years since we've started this most recent downturn, Alberta has been left to its own devices to try to climb out of it. It certainly creates an issue. Alberta and its residents—by default—are feeling that perhaps the Government of Canada and the rest of Canada don't really care about the reality of what's going on in our province.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

How important is market access for the companies in Alberta? It looks like TMX will eventually make its way to market, but how important to the province is additional market access?

[Ken Kobly]

It's hugely important. We can take a look at where we have the differential right now between the price of West Texas Intermediate and Western Canadian Select. That's exacerbated by basically the capacity issues we have in the current pipelines. Market access is huge for us.

That also has contributed, I think, to some of the negative outlook from businesses. Look, it's not just oil and gas that are affected by this. It's the people who service the oil and gas industry. It's the people who provide the hotels. It's the housing builders. Every one of those individuals is affected by what's going on in the oil and gas industry, particularly due to lack of access or full access to tidewater.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll move on to Ms. Dzerowicz and then Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank everyone for their excellent presentations. Wow, what diversity. Even though you might not be asked questions because of limited time, know that your recommendations were heard and that we'll be taking them into consideration.

My initial questions are for the Alberta Chambers of Commerce as well. You mentioned this, sir, just a few minutes ago, and I think it's part of a narrative that's circulating in our society that I think is unhealthy. It's that the east doesn't care about western Canada, doesn't care about Alberta, doesn't care about the economy in the west and doesn't care about the oil and gas sector.

In my downtown west Toronto riding, I would say that for the vast majority of people there's nothing further from the truth. What we really care about are our commitments around the Paris accord. We care about moving urgently and faster to achieve them. If anything, we want to help Alberta, the western provinces and those with high GHG emissions sectors to actually transition. There's no fight against workers. No one wants to make anyone make a choice between paying a paycheque and fighting climate change.

What can the federal government do to help Alberta businesses become more sustainable and to invest in transitioning to a low-carbon economy?

[Ken Kobly]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] in the environment. I think the Prime Minister and the premier both agreed to that. However, when we talk about that narrative that's circulating that's hurtful, you bet it is. I'm a proud Canadian. I'm a proud Albertan. I've lived in Alberta all my life. Sometimes perception is reality, and right now what I'm telling you is that the perception of a huge number of Albertans is that they feel abandoned and they feel the rest of Canada does not care.

One of the measures, certainly, that the Government of Canada could take to show that “we're here, we got your back and we're going to help you”—not to provide charity but to show that it's here to help and recognizes the contribution that Alberta has made to the economy over many, many years—is to address the issue of the sustainability transfers. Take it to the amount that it should be sitting at, rather than the artificial $60 per capita cap. I think that would go a long way towards western Canadians, particularly in Alberta, recognizing that the rest of Canada, particularly the Government of Canada, is behind them.

As far as how you can upscale folks to transition from the current economy goes, certainly it was one of our recommendations. I'm sorry that I didn't mention it earlier. I know that my communications guy is probably watching us and saying, “How come you're not doing this?” Our recommendation is to prioritize spending on skills for the future and to make that transition, that move, to give kids who are coming out of post-secondary institutions the opportunity for that first job. At the Alberta Chambers of Commerce, we have a work-integrated learning program—

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I'm so sorry to cut you off. I did hear that recommendation. I think it's an important one.

I just want to get one more comment in on the just transition act. We made a commitment in our platform that we would introduce a just transition act, which would give workers access to training, support and new opportunities to succeed in the new economy. Do you think that would be helpful?

[Ken Kobly]

You know what? I think what we would need to do before I comment on that would be to review more of the details of what is proposed within that act. I haven't seen those details. Before I would comment on whether it's going to be effective or not, I'd actually have to see the document.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'm turning to Mr. Ste-Marie, but as I'm going across here to the next questioner, I want to point out the impact of what's happening in Alberta. It certainly has effects right across the country, and it certainly affects us in Atlantic Canada.

As little as six years ago, there were 25 flights a week out of Moncton—full, with workers going to Saskatchewan and to Alberta and Fort McMurray. Not one of those flights is going right now. That puts into perspective a little how this has effects everywhere.

We'll go to Mr. Ste-Marie and then Mr. Blaikie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by greeting all the guests.

Thank you for your presentations. This group has certainly provided us with the most poignant presentations so far in our brief hearings. To save some time, I will keep to one question.

Mr. Leduc, I would like to know what your organization's position is on Huawei's deployment of 5G. Do you have a position on that?

[André Leduc]

No, we don't have a position on that. Huawei is not a member of our association, so we are avoiding that scenario.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

If you have no position, you don't see an issue with Huawei being the one developing 5G.

[André Leduc]

No, that is not at all what I said.

It is up to government security groups, such as the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the Communications Security Establishment, to investigate Huawei's tools and to assess them, and it is up to the government to make that decision. We have no position, one way or the other, on Huawei's technology.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you very much. That's all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Gabriel.

Mr. Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

I want to say thank you to all of our witnesses, including Ms. Daenzer and Mr. Farrant, for sharing their experiences. The point is well taken that it's an important role and that the support ought to be there for people on both the front end in terms of training and preparation for what they might see in the job they have to do and in the follow-up, as well, with respect to the impact that can have. Thank you for sharing your personal experiences on that point.

Thank you as well, Ms. Sullivan, for sharing your experience and the story of your son. I think that's important. The point is well taken on the disability tax credit. It's something that I know many members from many parties.... I know the NDP, as well, has raised this in the House and has done a lot of work on the disability tax credit. We do need to get that one figured out. Ultimately, of course, we would like to have a national pharmacare plan that would help people with the upfront costs, instead of having them just get a little bit back on their taxes at the end of the fiscal year, but we have to make sure that people will have a way to access it in the first place.

I want to turn to Helen Kennedy, from afar. I'm not familiar with all the details of the action plan, but I wonder.... When we talk about the blood ban, for instance, and some of the things you mentioned in your presentation, it seems to me those would have little or no financial impact on the government. Perhaps you could highlight a few of the things we could do that would make a meaningful difference. I appreciate there are other things that ought to be done and that there should be funding in place for those things as well, but if you want to take a moment to highlight some of the progress we could make on behalf of the community you represent, without having a significant financial impact, I'd appreciate that.

[Helen Kennedy]

Sure. Thank you very much, Daniel, for that question and the opportunity to elaborate.

There are significant areas where the government, at little to no cost, could make some changes immediately. One would be around changing the Criminal Code for intersex surgeries. Currently, it's legal for doctors to perform surgeries on intersex children, which is against international law. That's one that the government could immediately have a look at changing.

There's also the issue of being more inclusive, with policy review and changes that would look at seniors in long-term care facilities in particular. Our seniors are afraid to go into long-term care homes for fear of further victimization. Some of these areas can be reviewed immediately by the federal government to change policies and to require, through potential health transfer payments, that these long-term care facilities that are government-run in particular change their policies and be more effective and inclusive of LGBTQI2S seniors.

There are myriad issues, including around education and training. It's really interesting that some of the training policies included by the government won't necessarily impact LGBTQI2S people when over 64% of the student population who identify as members of that community don't feel safe in school, are hesitant to even finish their education and drop out. Things could immediately be changed in a whole series of areas. Make language in documentation more inclusive, for example. Change the policies around who gets to do research, how the data is analyzed and the language that's used in research calls. They're simple things, or what I would think are simple things. Through consultation with community organizations like Egale, I think there are immediate areas where the government could address some of these inequities.