Evidence of meeting #8 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was economy.
A video is available from Parliament.
1 p.m.
Liberal
1 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
To your more specific questions, we have a process, of course. The company goes to CDEV about funding, and that funding request then goes through the Treasury Board. Yes, it is funded through the Canada account, like the previous decision of the Conservative government before us around General Motors.
In regard to the shippers' costs, of course we have commitments from those shippers in terms of them picking up the costs, as they have the pipeline in play once it's completed.
To your final question, no, the government is not considering any subsidies to shippers.
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you.
Okay.
I will move to other questions.
Today, we have just had answers to questions that we asked the Department of Finance some weeks ago. First, on the subject of tax havens, it seems that the Department of Finance does not agree with the parliamentary budget officer's estimates. After all, he has said that the huge amounts in tax havens—he mentioned $25 billion—are contrary to the spirit of the Income Tax Act.
First, if you do not agree with that $25 billion figure, what figures do you in the Department of Finance have?
Second, your mandate letter states: "continue to implement national universal pharmacare". The Canadian Health Coalition's declaration "Pharmacare Now" is also asking for such a program to be established.
How does the Department of Finance view the establishment of a universal pharmacare program?
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Those are two very different questions.
As I said a few minutes ago, if we want to reassure Canadians that our system is working and is fair, we must continue to work with other countries to prevent companies from finding ways around what we want to accomplish.
We are continuing to work with the OECD to find ways of improving our system. Each year, we consider measures that we can take to that end. In budget 2020, we are currently considering the measures that will improve the way in which the system works.
There is nothing I can say today, but there is a lot to do.
To answer your second question, as we have said, a universal pharmacare program is very important. We have to consider how we can work with the provinces to come up with an approach that will work well in the future.
That is why we began with what we can do together. The work on expensive drugs for rare diseases is a good example of that. We will continue to have discussions and to work with the provinces to reduce the cost of the drugs and to ensure that everyone in the country has good access to them.
Those two objectives are very important and we are currently working to achieve them with our colleagues and, of course, with those in the provinces.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, both.
We have Mr. Morantz, and then back to Ms. Koutrakis.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, I just want to see if you could reconcile something for the folks who are watching today. I know you're fond of talking about how Prime Minister Harper handled the economy, and we have different views on that. You've made that point over and over and over, but you have to look at yourself as well. Back in the 2015 campaign, you made commitments to voters, as did the Prime Minister, that the budget would be balanced in 2019. I went back last night and read over some of the personal statements that you uttered. I'm sure you recall making those statements.
As well, the first item in the mandate letter from the Prime Minister to you is that you will continue to reduce the government's debt as a function of our economy. That's number one on the list, so I'm assuming it was very important to the Prime Minister that you maintain that. In the last fiscal update, the debt-to-GDP ratio actually rose. That's no longer an anchor you can lay claim to, at least for the time being. Hopefully, it will improve.
Getting back to the issue of the promise, I wonder if you can reconcile this. The 2019-20 budget originally projected a $19.8-billion deficit. In your update, you said it would be $26.6 billion. How do you reconcile what you said and promised personally to the Canadian voters before they actually placed their trust in you, and what has actually happened?
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Thanks, and welcome to this committee. It's the first time we've had the opportunity to work together.
These are really important questions. I think they're important because we need to be transparent with Canadians on how we're trying to manage the economy in a way that benefits Canadians today and puts us in a good position moving forward.
Of course, when we came into office in 2015, I know you'll remember what we were facing. We were facing a difficult situation. Oil prices were in the midst of going down significantly, and they continued to go down. In fact, they didn't reach their lowest point until significantly after we got into office. We've been in a sustained challenge in terms of that part of our economy for a while.
We came to the conclusion that what we needed to do was ensure that our economy remained resilient, which means that we had to continue to maintain our low debt-to-GDP ratio, which provided us with the resilience in terms of changes in the economy. That's why the Prime Minister put as my number one objective in this mandate to continue reducing that.
You mentioned the numbers. Obviously, the debt-to-GDP ratio has gone down since the Conservative government. It is lower today than it was when we came into office. That's not an assertion; that's just a fact. We intend on continuing to make sure that happens.
At the same time, we have a responsibility to Canadians. The fact that we've been able to reduce unemployment to pretty much the lowest level—certainly the lowest that you and I have seen in our lifetimes—is hugely important. We have people working. That's not only really great for them and their families; it's great for our economy. The low level of unemployment is leading to wage increases. Of course, both of those things together mean that our economy continues to grow.
We will continue to make sure that our balance sheet is strong, which we've done. We will continue to work around that particular measure you brought up, the debt-to-GDP ratio, to reduce that over time, because we know that we need to be prepared for any challenges.
If we look around the world, we realize there are challenges, some that we understand and some that might be around the corner. That's why we need to keep a resilient—
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We have to cut it there, Minister, so that there can be a very quick question from Marty.
Go ahead.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
There are a number of factors that relate to the debt-to-GDP ratio. For many of these factors, you had the information to make your determination before the 2015 election.
Be that as it may, I'll just move on to another question, and it directly relates to the deficit. It has to do with corporate welfare. In my constituency, people are constantly asking me about this. I'm getting emails, calls—$50 million to Mastercard, millions to BlackBerry and Loblaws. The one I can't get over is $17,000 on 5,000 rubber ducks for the Communications Security Establishment.
Given these kinds of inept decisions, how can you assure Canadians that their money is being well spent? Balanced budgets were promised by you, personally, out of your own mouth—a promise that was not kept. All you're delivering are these ballooning deficits.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I will come back to the importance of outcomes. The importance of being able to recover from a low growth rate can't be overstated. We found ourselves with a difficult situation, and we all recognize that there continues to be a real challenge in parts of our country. Not dealing with that would have been irresponsible, and having high unemployment—in excess of 7% at the time we came into office—was an issue we had to deal with. We have dealt with it, but it's not one that we can ever stop thinking about, because there are still people in places like Alberta and Saskatchewan who are going through real challenges.
We are going to continue to do that. We will work to make responsible decisions around making investments together, whether it's with businesses or people who are going to create economic opportunity. That's something we should be proud of and see that we've made real strides in employment. We'll need to continue to be responsible in how we do that. I appreciate your point on that, and it's certainly something that I reinforce with my colleagues at every turn.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you.
We'll move over to Ms. Koutrakis, and then back to Mr. Cumming.
Keep the time as tight as possible. We're a little over in every round.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We must be conscious of that. It is your problem, Mr. Chair!
February 19th, 2020 / 1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Morneau, for appearing before the finance committee this afternoon.
In my riding of Vimy, we have dozens of seniors residences and autonomous living facilities, some of which have more than 100 apartments. Seniors have worked hard to help build Canada, and in retirement they sometimes need help. Just as they worked hard for our country, I believe it is very important for us to work hard for them.
Canada has many impactful programs and benefits to directly improve seniors' quality of life. However, one of the most important questions I keep hearing from my constituents is what will happen to their spouse when they're gone.
Minister Morneau, can you please elaborate on what work you are doing on survivor benefits, both in Canada and in my home province of Quebec?
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
It's the first time you've been on this committee, at least while I've been here, so it's nice to have your question.
This has been a really important issue for generations of governments, as we think about how we deal with the reality of an aging population. Increasingly, with people spending more years in retirement, that's a challenge. If, unfortunately, one spouse dies, the other one can be left alone for a long period of time. I understand the question.
We've certainly been working to try to improve outcomes for seniors since day one, so the increase in the guaranteed income supplement was critically important. That helped tens of thousands of seniors. The decision to make sure that people could retire at age 65 was important, especially for lower- and middle-income seniors, who often are in a situation where they can't necessarily work more years. We have done a number of things.
I've heard the survivor's benefit is an issue. Of course, as we think about making changes, we need to work together with provinces. I think what you were referring to goes through the Canada pension plan, and the governance of the Canada pension plan is the Government of Canada but also the provinces, so it's on the agenda of that group.
The ministers of finance, who are the stewards of the Canada pension plan, get together once for sure, normally twice, per year, and we have discussions about how we can ensure both that the plan is funded appropriately and that it meets the objectives we're trying to achieve. The survivors' benefit is one of those objectives, and making sure it's up-to-date with the changes we are going through in longevity is important.
It's a continuing discussion. I'm an advocate for making sure the system works, and we'll take back your point of view to that group.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you very much for doing that. On behalf of all the seniors in my riding, it's great news, and I hope we're all aligned with the provinces as well to get it done.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Mr. McLeod, ask a very quick one. There's still time left on that side.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Thank you.
I wanted to ask about the Government of Northwest Territories' situation in terms of hitting their debt wall. That is very concerning for us in the Northwest Territories. It's one of the jurisdictions that have a federally imposed borrowing limit. We need to look at that limit and look at the options. The option is there to take some of the revenue-generating debt out of it, or else increase the limit. Is that something that you are looking at right now? I know the Government of Northwest Territories has made that request.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
In fact, I've heard that request not just from that government. The borrowing limits in the territories are an issue of significant interest because of the interest in each territory in being engaged in infrastructure development. The own-source revenues or borrowings are important. We've been looking at this issue. We need to look at it carefully to make sure that we consider it responsibly, but we are looking at it. I have responded to those territories that it's something we're looking at and considering quite seriously. We understand the issue, and we understand the rationale for each one of those territories. There will be more to say on this, I hope, in the not too distant future.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We'll have to end that round there.
We'll go over to Mr. Cumming. We will come back to you next, Mr. McLeod.
Mr. Cumming.