Finance Committee on Dec. 8th, 2020

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I will go back to the original question. What share will be for less than four years?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Minister.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, we were clear in the fall economic statement on our plan to push out along the curve, and that is a prudent plan. It's something that we have signalled clearly to markets, and that was an important objective of the fall economic statement.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

What share are for four years or less?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I have been clear, Mr. Chair, about our government's intentions of moving to longer maturities.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Yet the data in your own report shows that almost all of it is on short maturities, and it's susceptible to interest rate hikes, which you admit could come at any time.

Even the CBC is reporting that of the $240 billion of COVID spending, your government is refusing to release the recipient company names of that funding. Will you commit to publish all of the amounts and recipient companies of COVID-related spending before we vote on authorizing another $700 billion worth of debt that you're now asking for, yes or no?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Let me first just take issue, Mr. Chair, with the little slur there implicit in the “even the CBC” reports.

As a former journalist, let me just say that the CBC is a fantastic news organization. I think it contributes hugely to the national fabric and the public discourse in Canada, so I couldn't let that pass.

When it comes to the information members of Parliament feel is necessary for them to be comfortable supporting our government's measures, it's going to be up to each member to make—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

What is the point of order?

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

It's the length of the answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mrs. Jansen, the minister still had two seconds left on that answer, to be quite honest.

We'll go back to you, Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

If the minister believes the CBC, is the CBC right to say that her government won't release the numbers and the recipients of the COVID spending data, yes or no?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair, our government absolutely understands and values the importance of transparency, and we seek to release all the information we can. I think people also understand that a tremendous job is being done by the CRA in supporting Canadians and Canadian businesses—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, we will have to go back to Mr. Poilievre, and this will be the last question in this round.

Go ahead, Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I'll just ask the question for the third and final time, and hopefully this time we get a semblance of an answer. The government still refuses to release the names of the companies that have received public money, and how much.

We know this is exactly how we ended up with the WE scandal. We know this is exactly how we ended up with the Frank Baylis scandal. I have just a simple yes-or-no question. Will the minister publish the company names and the amounts of all the grants that have gone to companies under the COVID relief program, yes or no?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You have 30 seconds for your yes or no, Madam Minister.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

That's a long yes or no.

Just to be clear, Mr. Chair, the member is making some category confusions here. The WE Charity, after all, never did receive the government's support.

We published detailed breakdowns for every period of the wage subsidy. That's the right thing to do, and we'll continue to do that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Mr. Julian, you have two minutes coming to you. Are you ready for that now?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to House of Commons IT, and I apologize for leaving so unceremoniously.

I have to reiterate to the minister that transparency and disclosure is important. She has been asked repeatedly, but she has refused to say that this information will be given to the Canadian public, and I think that's unfortunate.

We've also seen, during this pandemic, an unprecedented $750 billion in liquidity supports being given to Canada's big banks. There are no conditions, unlike in other countries, where the liquidity supports came with conditions.

What we've seen from Canada's banks is that they are imposing interest and penalties. Yes, they did defer mortgages, but ultimately people will pay more at the end.

The question is very simple. When you see Canada's big banks reaping $29 billion in profits so far in this pandemic, why is this government not imposing conditions so that all of the supports that they have received from the federal government and federal government institutions also lead to people being supported in communities like mine, and others right across the country?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Madam Minister, go ahead, and then Mr. Fragiskatos will be the next one up. Our list got jumbled.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me start by saying one thing about the Canadian banking system. We have just been through and we are still in a deep economic crisis, our greatest crisis since the Great Depression. One of the things that our country has been relying on to get through the crisis is a sound and stable banking system. As a reporter based in New York during the 2008-2009 financial crisis, I was able to observe the strength and the stability of the Canadian banking system, which really shone compared with other banking systems, such as the U.S. and the British banking systems, to take two examples. That's actually a strength for our country.

Having said that, I do agree with the member from the NDP that it is really important, particularly given the uneven impact of this financial crisis—it has hit the most vulnerable the hardest—that everyone pay their fair share. That's why our government introduced concrete measures in the fall economic statement last week to limit the stock option deduction for people working at big companies. That's a significant and important step, and I'm glad that we were able to take it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, all.

We will turn now to Mr. Fragiskatos, who will be followed by Mr. Ste-Marie.

Mr. Fragiskatos, you have five minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, it's good to see you. Thank you for your testimony today.

I want to put the following to you. As you very well know, particular sectors of the Canadian economy have been hit harder than others. When I talk to London restaurant owners and hotel owners, those whose business relies on tourism, they are, first of all, very happy to have received wage subsidy support, rent support and the CEBA. Those programs are sustaining those businesses right now.

One of the questions I also get is this: How long will these supports be available? We could see a situation in which the pandemic is addressed. We know that vaccines are on the way and that there is a silver lining here, but these businesses will be the last to come back. What do you say to those business owners who are wondering about how long programs will continue?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I think all of us could ask that question.

Let me first of all reassure all the Canadian businesses listening to us right now that the government has made clear that the wage subsidy and the rent support will be in place until next summer. We want businesses to have that certainty and to have that confidence.

Let me also remind people that in the fall economic statement, we committed to raising the wage subsidy back to 75%.

I do think it's important for us to appreciate that we are all working in an environment with a great deal of uncertainty. That's why, when we announced our intention to put in place a growth plan, we were very clear that we would be guided by fiscal guardrails, and those would be employment, unemployment and hours worked. We are committed as a government to doing our job until Canadians have their jobs back.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

It's a reassuring message, Minister.

I have two and half minutes left, and I want to ask you a question that actually picks up on something you said in your testimony, the point about the 2008 recession and lessons learned: What does long-term growth mean to you? How do we put in place measures...?

For the short term, that is obviously happening, but how do we look to the long term and try to put in place policy that encourages continued economic competitiveness that will benefit the Canadian middle class?