Finance Committee on Feb. 18th, 2021

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

I'd be prepared to go to the vote right away, though I do see other speakers.

Just briefly, I think it's a good motion. I support the motion and I don't really want to debate it while we have officials here. I'd be happy to go to a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like further clarification as to why the motion is in order—that's unclear to me—and I'd like a bit more of an explanation from Mr. Ste-Marie as to what exactly would be the purpose of the meeting. Seeing as though the government has been very forthcoming in question period and in answering questions from media, I'm not so sure that the committee would be well served by focusing on this when issues like this are already being addressed. There are a lot of other things that we could be working on as a committee, whether in camera or out of camera.

Please give some more information on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It's in order because it is the business we're discussing at the committee. Normally, we require a 48-hour notice of motion, but it is the business that's on the table so the motion is in order.

Mr. Ste-Marie, do you want to make a point on Mr. Fragiskatos's question?

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Of course.

We need to understand the financial documents presented by the government, and as Mr. Vailles wrote today in La Presse, there is an $11-billion mystery. Officials have just told us that they are not qualified to explain to us what is behind the $13 billion. We need answers to these questions to fully understand what the government is doing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fragiskatos, is that it for you?

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Chair, Peter had his hand up before me. I do have a further point, though, so I'll go on the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We will go to Mr. Julian, then Ms. Dzerowicz and then Mr. Fraser.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, this is a motion that's in order, as you mentioned. This information has not been forthcoming. We're all aware of the health committee endeavouring to get information in terms of the impacts on vaccine distribution and not being able to get it. The financial side of things is our purview, so this is in order.

I certainly support it. I hope it won't be filibustered. I think we should just proceed to a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I have Ms. Dzerowicz, then Mr. Fraser, then Mr. Fragiskatos and then Mr. McLeod.

Ms. Dzerowicz.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I wasn't clear about the motion. My understanding is that there is another committee that might be looking at this—maybe the health committee.

My other issue is that, from a financial perspective, it seems like we are studying the finances right now. We are looking at the vaccines and we are able to ask questions about them, so I guess I just need to clarify a bit with Mr. Ste-Marie.

Are you feeling we need more details about the actual contracts and about exactly how much we have spent for each of the detailed vaccine contracts? Maybe you could talk a little more about specifically what information you feel the motion is going to get us that we are not able to cover under the current motion right now.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Dzerowicz.

My question is very much in line with the finance committee. It relates directly to the fall economic statement 2020. Line 1.4.1 allocates $13 billion in additional support for medical research and vaccines. We are told that this is for the needs of the department, but departmental officials tell us they are not qualified to give us the details.

The government needs to be transparent with us as legislators. I understand that this may be confidential information, but it could be presented to us at an in camera meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Just so I'm clear, it is an in camera meeting you are asking for. Is that right, Mr. Ste-Marie?

Okay. I have next Mr. Fraser, then Mr. Fragiskatos and then Mr. McLeod.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, I'm just wondering, since we have the witnesses here, if we can have this conversation at the end of the meeting, once we've wrapped up the questioning by members. Is it something we could discuss at the end of the meeting?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If Mr. Ste-Marie wants to table it until 15 minutes before the end of the meeting, we could do that.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I accept.

Thank you, Mr. Fraser, for making this proposal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Then we'll come back to....

Mr. Ste-Marie, did you have anything? I guess your three minutes are up.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I did exceed the two minutes and 50 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Next is Mr. Julian, for three minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I look forward to our discussion.

I appreciate everyone's being here to answer these questions. The Library of Parliament document talks about liquidity supports of $600 billion. When the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions came before us last summer, they stipulated that the overall level of liquidity supports to Canada's big banks was about $750 billion. The banking sector, of course, has reaped enormous profits during this pandemic—$30 billion to date.

I'm asking the officials from the Department of Finance if they can explain the difference between the $600 billion and the $750 billion in liquidity supports. These are enormous amounts, unprecedented in Canadian history, going to the banking sector. There wasn't any quid pro quo asked for.

The other question I had is on the contrast with people with disabilities, who received $600 after a long struggle. It took about nine months, but many, if not most of them, were left off the list. Could the department explain how many people with disabilities, through the disability tax credit, were able to access that $600, out of the three million people with severe disabilities in our country?

[Soren Halverson, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

I'll take the first part. I believe it will be one of my colleagues who will need to take the second part.

When it comes to the specific crosswalk that the honourable member is looking for between the two numbers he quoted, we will need to come back on that. I'm not familiar with the second number, but I just want to emphasize that those numbers, the build to those numbers.... I hope it's well understood that they don't represent a financial transfer to the financial institutions in question.

Specifically, a very large element of that number refers to changes in the guidelines that the regulator puts onto banks, so they, in fact, are intended to allow banks to lend more, which they did in the early stages of the pandemic crisis. It's not a cash number. It represents items that are different in nature from a financial perspective. I think it's just worth noting that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

It is a socialization of the risk. We still have the privatization of the profits, the $30 billion I mentioned. If you could get back to us, that would be terrific.

Can someone speak to the issue of people with disabilities and the one-time payment?

[Mark Perlman, Chief Financial Officer and Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development]

I could take that one for the member.

To date, about 1.7 million Canadians with disabilities have been issued a payment with a total value of just over $790 million. There's going to be one more final batch of payments going out in the spring to about 40,000 more for all the persons with disabilities who submitted their application by December 31, 2020.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I'm sorry. When would that be coming out?

[Mark Perlman]

It's coming out in the spring. I don't have the exact date, but I think we're targeting April for that one to go out.