Evidence of meeting #20 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I am explaining why we see these outcomes—
4:05 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
—based on the design, and I'm explaining why that design was chosen that way. That's the extent of my comment.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
I understand, but my question was simply whether the department was doing a follow-up to ask for repayment. I gather you are saying it is not, that it is not a surprising result for the department.
4:05 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I'm not speculating on what the department is doing now or what the department is considering on that aspect. I was just clarifying the reason this is observed now.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Okay. My question remains unanswered, but I'll move on to the next question, which is on the vaccines.
Regarding the $14 billion that has been referenced, how much of that budget has been allocated to research for vaccines in Canada and production of vaccines in Canada?
This, of course, has become a major issue because Canada has not stimulated the domestic vaccine production that other countries have. Therefore, how much of that $14 billion has been allocated to research and production in Canada?
4:05 p.m.
Evelyn Dancey Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
Between the article and the previous question, there have been a lot of numbers that have been indicated. What I would suggest on this is that we follow up on research with respect to your question, Mr. Julian. We would be happy to follow up in writing to help make things clearer.
I don't have specifically at my fingertips right now the precision you're looking for, but it would be possible to provide it, following the meeting.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Do I get another question? Thank you, Mr. Easter. You're being very generous.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
No, I have to cut you off. I'm sorry, Peter; you're at seven minutes.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I wasn't paying attention.
Mr. Falk, we're into a five-minute round, followed by Ms. Dzerowicz.
February 18th, 2021 / 4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses and departmental officials for attending today's committee meeting.
I think we can all appreciate the need for the government to move quickly at the onset of COVID-19. At the same time, we recognize that we also have a responsibility to be good stewards of taxpayers' dollars and to do our due diligence.
I'm thinking specifically of contracts that were awarded to businesses during that time. I'm thinking of a situation in which a company that apparently hadn't even been in existence for a week was awarded a contract for $237 million, and then subsequently sublet that contract to Baylis Medical, the firm of a former Liberal MP.
What criteria did the department use in making decisions such as awarding contracts such as that?
4:10 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
If no one else from my department can answer at this time, we can try to follow up. I'm not personally familiar with that particular issue.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
It's a specific contract, so yes, certainly, if you could, get back to us.
Go ahead, Ted.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
There's no answer coming at the moment on that question, then. Is that correct?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
We also know from the labour force survey that, back in March, we lost initially a million jobs. During the month of April, we lost another two million. Then, subsequent to that, the report shows that about another two and a half million Canadians had their hours reduced to about half of what they would typically work.
That's about five and a half million Canadians with either no work or reduced work, but we know that about 7.8 million Canadians applied for the CERB.
Can you comment on the discrepancy between those two numbers?
4:10 p.m.
Elisha Ram Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Certainly we saw significant job losses, as well as people whose jobs were restricted, early on in the pandemic.
When thinking about the CERB, we have to keep in mind that it was really three benefits rolled into one. It was a classic unemployment benefit, which was extended both to the employed and the self-employed, but it also played the part of effectively a sick benefit as well as a caregiving benefit, which are benefits that are not necessarily covered under our existing programs, such as employment insurance.
We know that people who applied for the CERB applied for a variety of different reasons. For some of them it was because of job loss or income loss due to the impacts of the pandemic, but for others it was because they were under quarantine or in isolation, or because their job was still there but they had to stay home to look after children because schools were closed as well as other care facilities.
I suspect that a big part of the discrepancy you are pointing to has to do with that particular diversity in the reasons for which people were applying for the benefit.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Okay. That's a very good answer. Thank you.
In instances in which the department suspected fraud, how was that handled?
4:10 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
CERB was delivered by both Service Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency. We worked very closely together to use the best information available to us.
We know, of course, that CERB was based on an attestation basis. That was a very deliberate choice that was made at the outset to ensure that we were able to get benefits out to people as quickly as possible. Effectively, that meant that many of the typical integrity measures we take at the outset, when we decide whether someone is eligible for employment insurance, were not done. In fact, we were relying on people to tell us if they were eligible, with the expectation that integrity measures would take place at the back end.
We certainly use techniques, including a large number of...and other measures, to identify situations where people were clearly defrauding the system. However, it's expected that in the vast majority of cases where individuals will be found not to have been eligible, it will be due to honest mistakes.
Looking at the numbers, as we know, letters have already gone out in some cases in situations where we can't tell whether someone was eligible or not and we're looking for additional information. As my colleague has already explained, more will be known when the 2020 tax information comes in.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal