Finance Committee on Feb. 18th, 2021

[Miodrag Jovanovic]

I can answer this question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the time being, the program parameters have been extended and clarified until mid-March.

At this time, in the case of a January request, the reference period may be January 2020. This is therefore still before the moment when the crisis started. The question will rather arise when the parameters will be announced for the extension after mid-March.

We know that the program will be in effect until June. This is the kind of consideration the government will take into account in determining the parameters for extending the wage subsidy from mid-March to June.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We're coming back to Mr. Julian.

Just on that point, though.... I know from experience with maple sugar and maple syrup producers here that syrup doesn't flow here until late March. It may flow earlier in Quebec; I don't know. That's another consideration.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate our witnesses' being here, and I understand that we need to have the discussion around the motion. I have at least half a dozen other subject areas to ask questions about, so I guess I would flag, Mr. Chair, that I would be hoping to bring our witnesses back without too much delay to answer a bunch of these questions.

Since I have one left, I will ask about the handing of a contract on the Canada emergency rent subsidy program to MCAP. I'm interested in learning what the process was for that company that engages in commercial mortgages to receive the Canada emergency rent subsidy program administration contract—it was an $84-million contract—and how the stipulation was put into place. Originally, of course, it was for rent assistance that was tied to commercial mortgages, so there's a clear conflict of interest.

Could we get information and a reply on how that contract was given?

[Soren Halverson]

Mr. Chair, I will take a run at answering that question.

The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation was the government's administrator for the program that the honourable member is referring to. The Department of Finance did not have a direct role in the outsourcing that CMHC did to stand that program up.

It's a question that you could direct to CMHC to get more details in terms of what its procurement process looks like.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

My question is really this: Why wasn't this delivered to the Canada Revenue Agency, and why wasn't it handled internally through the ministries that are here at present?

When I talk about how that contract was arrived at, it's not so much on the back end with CMHC. It's on the front end of how it was that this contract was given out when, internally, we had the ability to administer the Canada emergency rent subsidy program.

Were the CRA and the Department of Finance asked whether they could administer the program?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Halverson, can you take a stab at that?

[Soren Halverson]

I'm not sure my answer is going to be satisfactory.

The responsibility for administering that program was assigned to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. Decisions with regard to how best to execute that program were delegated as a part of that overall assignment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Mr. Kelly, do you have a single question?

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I'll go back to the theme of businesses that really haven't been well-served by many of these support programs.

Questions were asked going right back to immediately following the fall statement, the Speech from the Throne or even the summer. I'd like Mr. Halverson to respond about the uptake on programs like the BCAP, the heavily affected sectors credit capital availability program and the regional relief and recovery fund. These are programs that the Minister of Small Business has pointed to at varying times when questioned about companies that don't qualify for the rent subsidy and for the wage subsidy.

What is the uptake on these programs? How much money has gotten out the door on these programs? What are the approval rates?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Halverson, do you have those details?

[Soren Halverson]

I will begin with an answer and I will invite my colleague, Evelyn, to come in because I may not be providing the full picture.

Specifically, I'm going to just refer to the business credit availability program, EDC guarantee and BDC co-lending facility. Under those programs, around $2 billion in credit has been extended. That credit is flowing through Canada's financial institutions. It is essentially flowing as—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

That's both sides together.

[Soren Halverson]

Exactly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

That's a fraction of its anticipated amount. Is it not?

[Soren Halverson]

That's correct. When those programs were initially launched—and it seems like a long time ago—there was really not much clarity in terms of what was going on economically. It was fog of war. Many programs were stood up, including CEBA. Some of those programs experienced greater uptake. I think it's fair to say that programs that involved greater degrees of concessionality were employed more.

Programs such as the BDC co-lending and EDC guarantee, which effectively function as a regular business loan, received less interest from businesses.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

It's fair to say that those programs were kind of a dud, then.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll give Ms. Dancey a question, and we may have to come back to this another day.

I want to get Mr. Fragiskatos on for one question.

Ms. Dancey.

[Evelyn Dancey]

All I wish to add on that question is with respect to the HASCAP, which is the newer highly affected sectors credit program. That was just launched at the end of January. At this point, finance officials.... I don't have information regarding take-up at my disposal, but that would be a reasonable question to direct to the Business Development Bank of Canada.

For the regional relief and recovery fund, that of course is a fund that has been topped up a couple of times now by the government. It now stands at about $2 billion of funding that will be made available and is being made available. Once again, that is under the responsibility of another minister. I think the regional development agencies could follow up with respect to the take-up of the RRRF.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

I guess that gives us some ideas for other witnesses.

Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for the outstanding work that you've been doing. I echo my colleagues in that regard. Thank you for being here today.

My question is about the debt-to-GDP ratio. What is it currently for Canada? How does that compare to previous periods in Canadian history, for example the mid-1990s and the early 2000s? Could we compare to those points?

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I see Ms. McDermott turning pages.

We'll give you time, Ms. McDermott.

[Alison McDermott]

I'll pull that up, but perhaps you want to ask someone another question in the meantime.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I'd be happy to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I only intended to give him one question, but go ahead.