Evidence of meeting #27 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, all.
We will start our five-minute round with Mrs. Jansen, followed by Mr. McLeod.
Tamara, go ahead.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Thank you.
Ms. Potter, I've really been following along closely with the travel and tourism challenges, especially with independent travel agents. So far, it really looks like the government has offered nothing further than lockdowns for a plan, which has really harmed everybody. On top of that, we now have this HASCAP, which we thought was working. Now I hear from you that it's not really working at all. Even on top of that, HASCAP is charging 4% interest for a loan that you only need because the government has shut you down and given no other options besides lockdown.
Could you maybe talk to me about the fact that there's a 4% interest rate on a loan, the kind of interest rate that many of these companies probably couldn't even afford?
3:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Director, Tourism Industry Association of Canada
Thank you for the question, Mrs. Jansen.
In speaking with small businesses that have applied for HASCAP, I will say that they've been challenged by a number of things. One of them is.... Again, I go back to the viability rate, and certainly they are dismayed by the level of the interest rate. What they are buoyed by is the fact that the program was made available to them in the first place. We just want to make sure that it's working properly for them and that as many businesses as want and need to access the program have the ability to do so.
If I could, I'll also speak to the fact that this is a program that, again, needed to be one that people can.... I'll take a family business as an example. A family business may own a hotel, but they may have three properties. They need to be able to access the money for each of the properties, because each of those properties has fixed expenses that they are trying to manage against.
I would echo Mr. Milliard's comments on occupancy rates. They've been so incredibly low, and they will not come back until such time as we return to travel in great numbers and we get the borders open and get those international and business travellers back.
The program is incredibly important. We just want to make sure that it is working properly.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
You mentioned there are other regions, other countries, that are using good data to show that there are ways other than just what we're looking at right now in regard to lockdowns, other ways that we can open safely. I wonder if you could speak to that and show us what you've seen in actual data that shows us there are ways other than just a lockdown.
3:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Director, Tourism Industry Association of Canada
We've seen in other countries around the world and through our relationship with the World Travel & Tourism Council that from the very beginning other countries have been monitoring and putting in place other testing regimes and contact-tracing options.
Iceland is an example. Very early in the pandemic, when they wanted to see a return to travel, they put a testing regime in place. They have been extremely successful. Upon arrival, visitors would be tested. They would have to remain in quarantine until the test result came out. As soon as a test result came out that was negative, they were able to travel freely throughout the country. They've been able to keep their numbers of positive test results down to almost nothing in days after arrival.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Right, so there is data to show that we could do this differently, yet somehow we continue with the same regime, which is a real shame. It's costing businesses. They're having to take out loans that they probably can't afford at a 4% interest rate, which even the government knows is a crazy high interest rate at this point in time.
I'd like to move for a moment to Frau Bouman. Herzlich bedankt. I heard you say some amazing things about the government and the programs they've offered, and then I heard you talk about how your own business, your dance business, is decimated. I have heard that from many dance programs here as well.
Again, because of the lag time in procuring vaccines and no other plan but lockdowns, how much more damage will you be facing in your industry because of the way you have to wait?
3:40 p.m.
Artistic Director and Founder, Pia Bouman School for Ballet and Creative Movement
By nature I'm very much an optimist. By nature I believe in the strength and the tenacity that art and dance have in our humanity. I know it will be an incredibly hard journey, mainly because the dreams have been lost, the examples, the mentorship, the ability to have a great person to look up to, be it a dancer, a musician or an actor. They're not there. To me, it is a question of how to rekindle the passion for art in young people. That is going to be an interesting road. It will take time.
I am so inspired by all the artists who have been able to make a 180-degree turn in their careers and turn to Zoom communications, Zoom creations, online efforts. For our young people, those kinds of efforts are much harder to make. Young people need the education. We can't just say, “Well, hey, create a piece of art” and do it and have it there. We all need to learn to read. We need to learn to read music. We need to learn to play. We need to do the ABCs, and one plus one is two. Once we have that, we can actually blossom into the art of the future, the art of tomorrow, the art that comes out of COVID-19 experiences.
It's not going to be easy. I am burdened, as I said earlier, by the fact that we are faced with a debt of $50,000 to the government, even as thankful as I am, because it helped us through this period.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much.
Thank you, all.
We will turn to Mr. McLeod, followed by Mr. Ste-Marie.
Michael, go ahead for five minutes, please.
March 17th, 2021 / 3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My question is for the Tourism Industry Association of Canada. I represent the Northwest Territories, and up until the pandemic hit, tourism was the sector that was growing by leaps and bounds. We had aurora borealis viewing. People were coming from all over the world. Our hotels were full. Sometimes you couldn't get a room in any of the hotels. New hotels were being built. The airlines were full, totally booked. Restaurants were full. Then the pandemic hit and it really took its toll.
In our discussions with the tourism sector, what we talked about was the vaccine being the key to unlocking travel and getting tourism back to the Northwest Territories, and to the north for that matter.
Now, in this part of the country, in the Northwest Territories, Yukon and Nunavut, everybody who wants to be vaccinated is going to be by the end of April. However, now we're realizing that it's really not going to make much of a difference for the tourism industry because our borders are still going to stay locked and restrictions will still be in place for travel because of what's going on in the south.
Would you agree that the recovery of the tourism industry is going to be based largely on the rollout of the vaccine, getting everybody vaccinated in Canada, and for us especially up in the western provinces? It's really going to be a challenge to get tourism going until the last province gets everybody vaccinated.
3:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Director, Tourism Industry Association of Canada
I would agree that vaccines are the way forward for us to get the tourism industry back up and running again. While we're working toward herd immunity here as a country, it would be really important to be able to encourage Canadians to get out and travel across the country. It would be great if the federal government could take a leadership role in one travel policy instead of 13 travel policies.
The other thing we know, based on research provided by our friends at Destination Canada, is that if the borders remain closed until October, it will take until 2026 for the tourism industry, including the aviation sector and all the businesses that support the airlines, to get back to 2019 numbers. It is a long road to recovery that we're looking at. We can't let our eye off the ball. We need to make sure those vaccines happen. We need to make sure we have the right policies in place and are lining up with what our colleagues are doing in other jurisdictions. That way, as I said earlier, we are part of that seamless traveller experience around the globe.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
I think you touched on what was going to be my next question. Our tourism industry, especially in aurora viewing, was largely the Asian market. We had a lot of people coming from Japan, China and Korea. Even if we had herd immunity in Canada, I don't know how many people will be travelling very soon. I don't know how many people will be coming from other countries—or travelling anywhere, for that matter. I think that will be a challenge.
I didn't hear you talk about indigenous tourism. I'm curious to know whether you have any information on what the impact has been for indigenous tourism. I know that in my riding, I've talked to a lot of operators living in small and remote communities who are just closing their doors because they're mom-and-pop or one-person operations. It's just easier for them to do nothing and not try to chase programs and dollars.
I think we may be seeing a greater impact on indigenous tourism than the other markets in the tourism sector.
3:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Director, Tourism Industry Association of Canada
We have certainly seen an impact on indigenous tourism businesses right across the country. Living here in Ontario, I'm very familiar with the organization Indigenous Tourism Ontario and the work they have been doing to try to support businesses through this pandemic, not only with making sure that staff have been able to be retained and are redeveloping their skills, but also with business supports and additional training.
Access to financial support has been the priority for us in all of our conversations throughout this pandemic. We've been pleased to see some funding flow through the Indigenous Tourism Association of Canada to support those operators, especially those who are in more remote and rural communities.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, all.
In order to try to give more people a chance, I will go to one question each from Mr. Ste-Marie, Mr. Julian, Mr. Falk and Ms. Dzerowicz.
Before I do that, Ms. Potter, the hospitality and tourism industry is big in my home province. One of the issues I'm getting on the wage subsidy is that they have to do their planning now. The wage subsidy to June is not enough. They believe it has to be longer. What's your view on that? Should it be a specific program in terms of the wage subsidy just for those industries that are hard hit in hospitality and tourism?
3:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Director, Tourism Industry Association of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Easter, for that question.
We absolutely are looking at it right now. Our suggestion is for at least until the end of the summer of 2021, but ideally to the end of the year. However, I was talking to my colleagues at Restaurants Canada yesterday, and they were suggesting through to April 1, 2022. There are so many businesses that are still, at this point, trying to keep their staff onside and on team so that when they are able to open, they have the people with the right skills in place. That wage subsidy is just an incredibly important tool for them.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Festivals and Major Events Canada
Yes.
We have discussed this, as well, and we see two solutions.
The first is to change the current program's criteria as of June, so that, de facto, only the most affected businesses would be eligible for it, as a very high level would be required. It would necessarily affect culture and tourism.
The second is to create a new version of the program. This new version would be intended for the most affected businesses. Once again, the solution would essentially affect the tourism and culture sectors.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you.
For one question each, we will have Mr. Ste-Marie, followed by Mr. Julian.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Mr. Roy.
Once the vaccine doses have been distributed, and we start to come out of the pandemic and get to the recovery stage, how will resuming festivals and events be a good way to stimulate tourism and economic recovery?
3:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Festivals and Major Events Canada
As we have been able to see over the past year, there being no festivals and events has led to a lack felt in all of Canada's communities. I am thinking of the owners of restaurants along Grande Allée, in Quebec City, who have said how much the lack of festivals and events has hurt them. I have seen reports on the Calgary Stampede. Its absence has created a huge shortfall. The situation is the same everywhere, such as in Toronto and in the Maritimes.
Traditionally, events and festivals are vaguely intended to get people to go somewhere. That is part of their plan. People spend money not only at festivals or events, but also in the surrounding areas. The studies we conducted with KPMG on economic benefits show that one–third of festival spending generally stems from restaurants and that 23% of spending is generally related to accommodations, be it a hotel or a rental through Airbnb. So there is a trickle–down effect to sectors surrounding festivals and events.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses. Your testimony has all been very interesting.
I'd like to direct my comments—