That's correct. I'll address that.
With the CEBA loan, one of the hurdles or roadblocks for us is that we have to have a minimum of $40,000 in non-deferrable expenses. As sole proprietors, we don't meet that benchmark, so we are precluded from that fund.
Then they introduced the regional relief and recovery fund, which was designed for small businesses that are falling through the cracks. We discovered that if you are in a rural area, you can apply through your CDC office for that fund and you are able to get funding. However, if you are in an urban area, it gets redirected to FedDev and you have to be incorporated for that. Half of our members are not able to access that.
We actually met with some of the assistant deputy ministers of small business and innovation and development earlier this month. They kept saying to us that we should be taking advantage of the HASCAP loan and that it's great, whatever the amount is, at 4%, a wonderful loan. Our response was that we've been one year without revenue. How do you expect us to pay loan payments on a 4% loan? It does not make sense for us to be going into more debt. We're already in debt as it is, up to our eyeballs.