Evidence of meeting #39 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cmhc.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Could he go on the end, because I do have one more question for Mr. Tremblay from CMHC?
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Thank you.
Audrey-Anne Coulombe, a spokeswoman, was quoted as saying, “The objective is to identify solutions that could level the playing field between renters and owners.”
Unfortunately, these sorts of statements don't acknowledge that homeowners pay a huge portion of their income in taxes to three levels of government before they can even save for a down payment. There's no acknowledgement of the cost of owning a home, such as maintenance, repairs and insurance, let alone any renovations that enhance the value of the property.
Do you think Canadians who take on the risk and responsibility of home ownership should be penalized for doing all that hard work?
5:45 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Innovation, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Mr. Chair, I do not think that.
5:45 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Innovation, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
If Canadians think that housing is an investment, we do not have a lot of other vehicles in Canada whereby we permit somebody to buy a house with 5% down and be able to.... Yes, there are other costs for sure. I don't dispute any of that. It's just that we can't dispute that there's an imbalance as well in terms of tax treatment for renters versus homeowners.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay.
Mr. Kershaw, I said I'd let you in. You might want to comment on a couple of those questions.
5:45 p.m.
Founder, Generation Squeeze
Yes. I'll work in reverse order.
If we're wanting to think about the ways in which homeowners work hard to buy their homes, that's absolutely correct. Do they pay into three levels of government in their taxes? That's absolutely correct, but so do renters. They also pay their taxes to three levels of government. They work hard to pay for their rental homes. What we don't have for renters is the equivalent of a homebuyer's tax incentive or a homebuyer's tax credit or tax-sheltered RRSP deductions you can use to pay for your down payment. You can't use that for your rent.
I would definitely encourage you, Ms. Jansen and the Conservative Party, if you're looking to get a briefing note on the ways in which we subsidize homeowners over renters, that a range of people, myself included, could help you better understand that problem area.
If you want to characterize CMHC as somehow being singularly focused on funding a study to look at taxation issues, I invite you to ask Monsieur Tremblay to tell you how much money they put into the supply challenge and how much money they put into other parts of the research area related to supply. It would make the money going into this particular solutions lab a rounding error. To suggest that somehow CMHC has become this meta-entity investing in research about taxation wildly mis-characterizes how CMHC is using its budget.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, everyone, for your very interesting testimony and great conversation this afternoon.
I will continue with the CMHC and the national housing strategy and solutions lab, as there seems to be a lot of interest here this afternoon.
Mr. Tremblay, from what I see, there seems to be a misunderstanding around the purpose of CMHC solutions labs and their relationship with federal government policy. Can I ask you to outline exactly what solutions labs are? Can I also ask you to provide an overview of some of the other projects and organizations that you've dealt with through this program and that have been approved through solutions labs?
5:50 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Innovation, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Again, a solutions lab is meant to start with a housing challenge that we're trying to get some insight on. From there, participants are invited from various sectors. In the case of Dr. Kershaw, as he mentioned, we invited builders and developers and so forth, but in other cases, it could be non-profits. It could be front-facing people if we're dealing with issues with shelters for victims of family violence, for example. It brings all walks of life. From there it looks for solutions. In this case, we're talking potential policy recommendations, but it could be a new technology or it could be a best practice in various things. I don't have all the details of participants in all the labs, but I invite you to look all of our solutions labs on our website, the ones we've funded.
I'll also say that housing affordability is a big challenge. I don't think we should discourage innovative thinking. I don't think we should discourage discourse. Actually, we should encourage it. That is first and foremost one of the big goals of the solutions lab.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Mr. Tremblay, you might have started your testimony with this, but I think it merits going on record again. Has the federal government requested a study from the CMHC on a home equity tax?
5:50 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Innovation, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
No, it has not.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
You did confirm earlier in your testimony that the Government of Canada does not seek any policy advice from the CMHC. Is that correct?
5:50 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Innovation, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
It will not seek tax advice from CMHC. It will seek advice on housing programs and so forth.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
You have time for one more. Then Jenny has a quick question.
Ed Fast or Ted Falk, do you have a quick question that you want to raise as well? Think about it. In the meantime, I'll go to Jenny after Annie. Then we're going to cut out.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay. Following Annie, we'll go to Jenny, and then Mr. Kelly will wrap it up.
Go ahead.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Kershaw, in response to the fall economic statement, your organization commented on the strong language to support child care. In budget 2021 we've proposed a $30-billion investment over five years, with $8.3 billion ongoing to support affordable child care and early learning in Canada.
Can you share some of your thoughts on this investment and discuss the impact it could have on child care affordability in Canada? Could you also offer some comment on what it would do to labour force participation and economic growth more broadly?
5:50 p.m.
Founder, Generation Squeeze
It truly is an historic investment. We've never seen this scale of investment in child care from a national government. It has been a long time in the waiting. Decades ago the recommendation was made, so kudos to this particular government and to our first female finance minister, in addition to the feminist cabinet, for pulling that off.
It is a massive win that will ease the squeeze on the generation raising young kids. It will be easier for them to deal with higher housing costs now that we are putting in a real plan to ensure that child care never again costs another rent or mortgage-sized payment. It will take us a while to get there, but the dollars that are on the table are real, and when matched with a contribution from provinces outside of Quebec—Quebec is already a key leader—we are going to see something really exciting. It will absolutely improve labour force participation for women generally and for parents as well, more generally, and it will be a big part of our building back better and stimulating the right kind of economic growth.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We have to go to Ms. Kwan and then we will wrap it up with Mr. Kelly.
5:55 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you.
The national housing strategy aims to create between 150,000 and160,000 units of new affordable housing over 10 years, much of which, some would argue, would not really target those experiencing homelessness or of core need.
With that said, to have a fighting chance at ending homelessness and addressing housing need, the CAEH has said that Canada will need to build at least 300,000 new deep-subsidy, permanently affordable and supportive housing units to ensure that those units are specifically prioritized to those experiencing homelessness or at risk of homelessness.
In light of this analysis from housing advocates, I wonder if I can ask the CMHC and Ms. Farha for comments on how we are going to ensure that the government will meet its promise and commitment to adequate housing's being a basic human right when we're so far behind with what is being put on offer with the national housing strategy.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
5:55 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Innovation, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
For the government, the national housing strategy was the first big stride in terms of our UN commitment to a progressive realization of a right to housing. Then there was the National Housing Strategy Act, which enacted some participatory mechanisms, such as the national housing council and the federal housing advocate. Those are key steps to a progressive realization.
As well, the government in the national housing strategy has been clear that we can't do this alone, that the federal government cannot do this alone. We are looking, as I mentioned, for others to participate to help us through this. Whether through the private sector, the provinces or the municipalities, it is a collective effort that will get us there. The governments, through six successive budgets, have put money into housing, so they are progressively realizing a right to housing.
