Finance Committee on May 11th, 2021

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I will try to go really fast. First of all, I want to speak to some of the assertions in that question.

Let me just point out, for Canadians who are listening, that the CRB continues to September 25. This is an important extension. The changes we made, the flexibilities we introduced to EI, are extended for an additional full year. We have also expanded the EI sickness benefit from 15 to 26 weeks.

On disabilities, let me point out that particularly for students with a serious but not permanent disability, we have significantly expanded support. That's something that I'm very glad we were able to include in the budget.

In terms of tax evasion, let me say that I believe this budget invests more strongly and more significantly in closing tax loopholes, in fighting aggressive tax-planning schemes and in going after tax evasion than any previous budget. I would like to also point out the measures here on beneficial ownership and shine a light on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both very much.

Ms. Jansen is splitting time with Mr. Falk.

Tamara, you have two and a half minutes, if you could.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Mr. Chair, just before we get started, I wonder if we can make sure that we commit that the answers be the same length as the questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

They are pretty well. In fact, some of them have been shorter, if you can believe that.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Ms. Freeland, last night I visited with Dave Sidhu, a constituent who, along with his family, has run Elisabeth's Chalet, a German-themed restaurant in downtown Cloverdale for the past seven years. He is now in thousands of dollars of new debt with no hope of opening back up on the horizon and he's at the end of his rope, so he wants me to ask you a number of questions.

First, regarding CERB, he would like to know why his part-time staff, who normally made $500 every two weeks, got $2,000 from government. He wants to know if you realize how unfair this program is that people get paid more to stay home than go to work while he and his family are taking on enormous debt that they may never get out from under.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

First of all, Ms. Jansen, I would like to say to this very entrepreneurial constituent of yours that I would disagree that he has no hope of ever opening up, no hope of opening up on the horizon. I myself am very optimistic of the speed of the vaccine rollout campaign. We are seeing the COVID numbers fall in British Columbia, and I am actually hopeful that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

When it comes to the CERB—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Minister, we'll have to get back to Ms. Jansen.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Thank you.

I didn't get an answer to that one, so regarding the business support loans, Dave would like to know why your programs make no differentiation between those who were seriously impacted and those who were not. He wants to know why small business owners like him who were shut completely down were treated the same as ones that were open.

Why didn't you better target compensation for those who were much more impacted?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

In fact, compensation has been very focused on where the need is the greatest. That is why programs like the wage subsidy and rent support are actually based on level of income loss.

As well, I do want to go back on the CERB and to say that my government's view is that the millions of Canadians who lost their job in COVID through no fault of their own needed to be supported. We're glad to have been able to do that.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

This is my third question.

Dave was very frustrated that the new HASCAP, a program that was supposedly created for highly affected businesses like his, is completely useless to him. Since he's in total lockdown, he doesn't qualify. He thinks it's ridiculous to expect a restaurant in lockdown to submit a revenue projection to qualify.

With no customers, there's no revenue, so how does that even make sense?

It's heartbreaking to see the damage these program failures have done to small businesses across the country that are in the exact same position as Dave.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Minister.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Ms. Jansen, when it comes to Canadian small businesses, I would beg to differ with you and would say that extensive support is available. The CEBA loan is available. The wage subsidy is available. The rent subsidy is available, and for businesses like this restaurant that you're describing that is subject to lockdowns, an additional 25% top-up to the rent support.

Canada is offering the most extensive set of of support measures for small businesses of any G7 country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We will go over to Mr. Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for coming to the committee today.

In your opening comments you talked about the imbalance and inequality between different people groups and especially that it has been exasperated now during COVID between genders. Your $30-billion early learning and national child day care program, which will provide subsidized government day care for $10 per child per day, is going to be used by some women in my riding and across Canada, and others will make the choice of not using that.

How does your budget address the imbalance and inequality that will create between women?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Chair and Mr. Falk, every family will choose the child care arrangement that works best for them. As a baby, I was taken care of by my own Baba and I have very tender memories of that. My own mother retired six months after my first child was born and came and lived with us and took care of her. Those can be wonderful arrangements for families that have the resources.

Our early learning and child care plan is about making it an option for every family across the country to have access to affordable, high-quality child care. This is an investment in long-term growth for the country, an investment in expanding labour force participation. High-quality child care, early learning and child care, is an investment in the youngest Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You have time for a quick one, Ted.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Wayne.

With regard to agriculture and carbon tax exemption, grain farmers get an exemption for diesel fuel that they burn in their equipment while farming, but many farmers are not necessarily grain farmers. They farm livestock—cattle, pigs, dairy, feathers—and also have greenhouses. The heating fuels that they use to heat their barns and facilities could have been addressed in this budget, as well, and you've chosen not to do that.

Could you explain to me why you created that inequality and imbalance in the agriculture sector?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

We have actually addressed that very legitimate concern that farmers have. When it comes to greenhouses, actually, previous measures have made particular provision for greenhouses because of the competitive markets in which they operate. When it comes to use of the non-purple farm fuels and the impact of the price on pollution, this budget does actually have measures to answer the concerns that farmers have there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Really, you're over time, but we'll let it go.

What is your follow-up?

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

May I have a follow-up, Mr. Chair?

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Some farmers use propane and natural gas to heat their barns, and that, apparently, is not covered. That's my concern.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Madam Minister, do you want to add anything or just take note of it?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Sure.

I am very aware of the concerns that farmers have had, particularly but not exclusively around grain drying and use of the non-purple fuels. There are measures in this budget to address those concerns.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

Thank you, both.

Mr. Fraser, the floor is yours for about four and a half minutes.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wasn't expecting a question in this round, so I'll treat it as a bonus.

Before I do, let me just put on the record my extraordinary disagreement with our colleague Ms. Jansen's perspective on the CERB. I can tell you the feedback that I heard, Minister, in my own community. During a time when people were being forced to stay at home to protect the health and well-being of their families and members of their communities, this is a program that made sure they could pay their rent and mortgages and put food on the table.

I want to direct my question towards the measures targeting young people, particularly students, in this budget.

Before I got into politics—in fact, before I got into anything—I was a student president at StFX University. Go X Go!

I see Wayne shaking his head up there; I'm a homer.

I was one of the folks who went to Ottawa to lobby MPs for important changes. Some of the things in this budget around extending a moratorium on interest on student loans, not requiring students to pay back their student loans until they're earning $40,000 a year, extending the doubling of the Canada student grant—which is going to cover, on average, 90% of the tuition for the lowest-income families in Canada—are all terrific measures. However, there is one in particular that I don't think has got the attention that it deserves. There is a new proposal in this budget that is going to ensure that students don't need to pay back their student loans if their monthly payments exceed 10% of their household income. I should say that they'll still be required to pay that portion back, but the amount beyond that 10% will be covered, both principle and interest, by the federal government.

In the case of students for whom, say, 10% of their monthly income is $400 a month and whose monthly payments are $650, this is going to extend hundreds of dollars every month to low-income students when they're trying to get their feet under them.

Could you tell me the motivation behind this policy and the importance of supporting young people? I'll add that the reason I care about this is that I think the next cure for cancer or the next business solution might be locked in the mind of some kid who can't afford to go to school. It's not just that kid who loses out when he or she can't get an education; it's every single one of us.

If you could highlight the importance of some of these measures to make sure that we can improve the affordability of an education, I would be grateful.