Evidence of meeting #49 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A video is available from Parliament.
Hotel Room Attendant, UNITE HERE Local 40
It's a quarantine hotel, yes, and it is making more money than in normal times because the government is paying him more than a million dollars, but I don't think he wants to open yet.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
I'm going to go back to Ms. Travis, for a quick moment, about the whole notion that she mentioned in the last round about transparency.
Canadians want to see those who cannot work and whose businesses have been closed due to the pandemic to be supported. It's the right thing, when governments shut down a business to ensure that people are supported, but when Canadians think that money is being misspent, or that money is going out the door and failing to reach those who are being targeted by these programs, they get very upset.
Can you talk about the need for transparency for these programs?
Researcher, UNITE HERE Canada
I agree. Transparency is critical. This is public money being given to employers to subsidize the business to keep workers attached to their jobs, and that isn't happening. If we don't know how much they've received and if we don't know how many workers have actually been covered under the program, how much of their pre-COVID staff have been retained or furloughed and put on the program.... We have no idea.
When we ask employers to tell us about the wage subsidy program, they say, “We don't have to tell you that information.” That's very challenging. Given that the stated purpose of the program was to keep workers attached to their jobs, frankly, we don't see that happening.
Rarely do we hear of employers that have used it cover their entire staff, and that's a problem. We're concerned that the federal hiring subsidy is going to be more of the same. Will there be any conditions on the program? Will we know who has used the program or how much they received? How many of their workers who were laid off because of the pandemic are they bringing back by using this subsidy, before they look elsewhere?
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Monsieur Côté, we heard testimony at the finance committee about indebtedness within the small business community.
Not all of your members are small businesses but many of them are. Do you want to comment on the level of indebtedness, and how, for small businesses, the debt that they've had to take on to get through this pandemic may threaten recovery?
Can you talk about debt?
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
I don't have specific numbers on the indebtedness of the small and medium-sized businesses that I have in the association, but what I know is that some of them are in pretty bad shape right now. It's going to impair their capacity to rebound after the pandemic, and some are on hold because of this. Since the interest rates are not fixed for the next few months, there are some concerns about what's going on and what's going to happen.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, Pat.
We'll turn to Annie Koutrakis.
We will probably have time for one question if you want one, Ed—and maybe Mr. Fraser.
Okay, Annie, you have five minutes.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My thanks to all the witnesses for their presentations and their comments this afternoon.
Mr. Côté, I would first like to go back to Mr. Kelly's question. As we know, one of the funding programs for small businesses in Canada helps to obtain loans from financial institutions. I am sure that some of your members can use that program.
First, how does that program help the retailers you represent?
Second, in your opinion, how will the improved program be better for the retailers?
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
Thank you for your question.
I have no specific data on the reaction of retailers to that program in particular. However, I can tell you that access to capital often depends on the field of expertise of the retailers or the industry of which they are part. Some retailers in some sectors have better chances to obtain funding. We have also observed funding trends at retail level. Currently, there is a lot of electronic commerce, so it is a little easier to obtain funding for e-commerce than it was before.
Although we have seen an increase in online purchases during the pandemic, we still foresee a return to brick-and-mortar businesses after the pandemic. So we must make sure that the retailers who have adopted an omnichannel strategy—meaning those that can provide both online and in-person services—have access to appropriate funding. That could be a helpful change to the program for small and medium-size businesses.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Have your members ever told you whether the current programs have helped them during the pandemic?
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
Currently, our members are telling me that the wage subsidy and rent subsidy programs have been very well received. They have helped them through the many waves of lockdowns we have experienced, especially in the case of small and medium-sized businesses.
It's critical to keep employees, because retailers don't want to lose their expertise. The wage subsidies have allowed some employees to be kept on the payroll, especially for small and medium-sized retailers. They don't want to lose their sales staff or their information technology experts who have been with them for years
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Finally, how can introducing assistance for small and medium-sized businesses to move to digital assist the retailers that your organization represents?
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
Some years ago, we implemented a pilot project to help small and medium-sized retailers make the digital shift. It was taken up more widely and supported by the governments of Canada and Quebec.
It's a question of helping retailers who know little or nothing about where to start that digital shift. We have to understand that some of them can only spend a small amount of time on it, out of all the time that they spend on their operations. Having assistance and advice can therefore help them move more quickly to that method of sales.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you.
I have no further questions, Mr. Chair. I'm willing to share my time.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
I said that I have no further questions and I'm willing.... I'm a good sharer, if anybody wants to take up some of my time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I'll just take your time for a minute, because I have a question for Ms. Travis. Then we'll go to one question from Mr. Fast and one from Mr. Fraser.
With regard to this problem at the Pacific Gateway Hotel, Ms. Travis, the wage subsidy can only be claimed if it has paid employees. The application has to be submitted to the CRA to get the wage subsidy. There would have to be a record. They do actually have to pay an employee in order to get the wage subsidy, and apply through the CRA.
What's your comment on that? Is that happening? Are they paying other employees and getting the wage subsidy? What's going on here? Do you know?
Researcher, UNITE HERE Canada
We know that they didn't use it for the workers who were laid off before they were fired. We know that.
In terms of information about who they did use it for, I can make an assumption, but we don't know because they haven't told us. They could have used it for management or they could have used it for the skeleton crew that they have immediately on staff, but we just don't know.
We know that there are two owners, and both of them appear on the CEWS registry. We don't have any other details about when they used it, how long they used it or who they used it for. We've requested the information. We haven't gotten a response. We do know there are a lot of workers who didn't benefit from the program. They didn't put them on as furloughed workers.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you.
We'll go to Mr. Fast and then Mr. Fraser to close.
Ed, you have one question.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thanks so much, Chair.
I'm going to stick with Ms. Travis. Just for clarity, in the Pacific Gateway Hotel firings, how many employees were actually fired or laid off?
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Obviously the hotel is still operating, so there are employees, whether through a contract or otherwise, working in the hotel. Am I correct?
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Are they working for the same wages that your members would have been working for, or are these lower wages? Do you know?