Evidence of meeting #49 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
All right. We're just about at the six minutes.
I see that Ms. Cardona has come back online.
I know that you had a short statement as well, Ms. Cardona. If you can hear me and if you want to make that now, go ahead. The floor is yours.
May 21st, 2021 / 1:05 p.m.
Elisa Cardona Hotel Worker, UNITE HERE Local 40
Thank you, Chair.
I'd like to thank the committee for inviting us today to join you to speak about government subsidies for businesses, like the new federal hiring subsidy and the expansion of the wage subsidy.
Michelle mentioned before that the government—
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Unfortunately, because of the poor sound quality, the interpreters were not able to do their job.
1:05 p.m.
Hotel Worker, UNITE HERE Local 40
It's on my headset. My computer died and I wasn't able to find a replacement.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I'm sorry. We can't continue unless we have interpretation.
Is there anything we can do there, Alexandre?
1:10 p.m.
The Clerk
We can try to connect with Ms. Cardona. However, I'm—
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
1:10 p.m.
Hotel Worker, UNITE HERE Local 40
Thank you, Mr. Easter.
I'd like to thank the committee for inviting us to join you today to speak about government subsidies for businesses, like the new federal hiring subsidy and the extension of the wage subsidy.
As Michelle spoke about, the federal government took over our hotel, the Pacific Gateway. The government also brought in the Red Cross, and they have been here since last year. We became displaced from our restaurant, kitchen and housekeeping jobs. The hotel management used the federal takeover as an excuse to terminate me and 140 of my co-workers. That meant 70% of our staff was fired. Two-thirds of them were women.
I worked there full time for seven years as a hostess and server until the pandemic put me out of work. I am a single mom raising two children. Their ages are 12 and 14. This past year has been very stressful for me and my family. My co-workers and I thought we would have jobs to return to when the pandemic ended. All we asked of the hotel was to extend our recall rights due to the pandemic. We have only a 12-month recall right. All of us have pretty much gone past that. That's why we have been fired.
The owners of Pacific Gateway used the wage subsidy but never used it for us. Will they be receiving the new hiring subsidy to hire our replacements? Public subsidies are supposed to help businesses keep us connected to our jobs during the pandemic. This isn't happening. Prime Minister Trudeau also promised us a feminist recovery, but women are still bearing the brunt of the firings at our hotel on the government's watch. These were living-wage jobs that allowed us to support our families.
After the latest round of mass firings, we went on strike on May 3. The federal government should not spend millions of dollars subsidizing a hotel that throws us away. We urge you to stop using this hotel and to not allow hotel owners to use public subsidies at our expense.
Thank you.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you very much, Ms. Cardona. It's not easy for you to make those comments, given the situation you find yourself in. We thank you very much for that.
We'll go back to our rounds.
We'll begin with Mr. Ste-Marie for a six-minute round, followed by Mr. Julian.
1:10 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Cardona, thank you for your testimony, which was very poignant. Let's hope the situation changes.
Good afternoon to all the witnesses. My thanks to them for joining us today.
My questions are for Mr. Côté.
Mr. Côté, thank you for your presentation, which was very clear. First, I would like to come back to the interchange fees imposed on retailers by the credit card companies. This rate is 0.5% in Europe, whereas it is 1.4% and can even reach 2.5% here in Canada.
You are asking the government to take action in that area. Is that correct?
1:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
We have actually been asking the government to reduce these fees to 0.5% for a few years. The European Union has demonstrated in practice that it is possible to do so without automatically destroying the payment system.
It is important to understand that, in Canada, debit card payments use a fixed cost system. The fee charged to the retailer is a single cost, regardless of the quantity purchased or the amount of the bill.
For credit cards, the fee is a percentage. For large transactions, the fee charged to the retailer becomes quite substantial.
For small and medium-sized retailers, who don't really have the leeway to negotiate with the two large credit card providers that we are very familiar with, it's a little difficult to have the negotiating power to reduce those fees.
Large retailers, such as the major U.S. chains, have been able to secure attractive rates over the years. However, this negotiating power is not available to small and medium-sized retailers.
Given that the banking system is federally regulated, there is clearly room to control [technical difficulties] more creatively, and at zero cost to the government. This would still help retailers and purchasers, especially since the fees are imposed on charitable donations.
When a donation is made to any charity in Canada, a percentage of that donation goes into the pockets of credit card providers. In a sense, it is as if a hidden or private tax is attached to the transaction.
Transactions have become much simpler over the years because of the computer and digital systems in place whose costs have probably already been absorbed. So it's hard to understand why we could not have those interchange fees reduced.
1:15 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you.
It's really shocking to learn that, when you want to support a charity, you end up subsidizing Visa and MasterCard at the same time. I hope that this will be taken into account in the Minister of Finance's legislation.
The minister announced such a measure in her budget, but it is not in Bill C-30. In the budget, she states that it will be included in next fall's economic statement.
But it is no secret that the government is likely to call an election in August.
Would you have preferred to see such legislation introduced in Bill C-30, which we are discussing today?
1:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
We were pleasantly surprised to read that in the April budget. For the sake of transparency, I must say that we had given up believing it. The government and the opposition parties are responsible for the electoral calendar, so I will leave it to the parliamentarians to decide what to do.
However, I would also like to express our interest in actively participating in the discussions for the implementation of such a measure next fall. Working committees should be set up, and we should get to work before the summer.
We therefore strongly encourage the people at the Department of Finance to get the process under way and to consult with those involved so that we can have something tangible as soon as possible.
1:15 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Your message is clear. Let's hope you are being heard.
Another point stood out for me. You said that large American chains are able to negotiate lower rates that give them an advantage over our retailers, which are often family businesses.
I also wish it had been implemented more quickly, because I feel that credit card payments, especially online payments, have multiplied with the pandemic.
Have you noticed an increase in credit card payments to the members of the Conseil québécois du Commerce de détail compared to before the pandemic?
1:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
We are seeing it a lot with e-commerce.
In stores, people can use both payment methods. Debit card payments should always be preferred, because they are more beneficial for both the consumer and the retailer. However, it is more difficult to pay online with a debit card.
Due to the substantial shift of purchases from physical locations to online purchases, credit cards have become a much more widely used payment method. The gradual disappearance of—
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I just wanted to say that this is your last question, Gabriel.
Finish up, Mr. Côté.
1:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
In closing, I would just like to say that people are using cash less and less. The same bills end up staying in wallets for a few weeks.
As credit cards are being used more and more, it's a good time to regulate everything for everyone's benefit.
1:15 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you.
We know that independent retailers are the soul of our downtown areas. I live in Joliette and the stores, restaurants and boutiques keep the downtown area of Place Bourget alive.
I am concerned that some or many of them will close because of the pandemic.
How are these retailers coping with the debt load they have faced over the past year? What is the situation on the ground?
1:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail
The situation is fragile. It depends a lot on the retail sector. Some businesses have done very well. If you go to your local hardware store, you will see that they are doing very well.
However, the survival of some fashion retailers, for example, is a little more precarious. Some are in debt and, clearly, some will not survive and some will come out of this in rough shape. We need to ask ourselves some questions.
The commercial and social fabric of some of the main streets in your ridings is at stake. For us, this is important.