Evidence of meeting #56 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cra.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I'm going to call you “Wayne” because I would be remiss if I didn't join the chorus of accolades that you've received today.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Don't you remember that I used to give you a hard time when you were Minister of International Trade?
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Well, I was just going to mention that.
I do echo the sentiments of my colleagues here and just affirm that you are someone who's able to understand and elevate humanity above the politics of this job. It's something very few people really understand. You've been able to do it successfully, as shown in the fact that here at committee, we actually get along.
You are even-handed and you understand the role that we play as elected officials, but I also wanted to highlight that you and I have been adversaries. You were my critic when I was trade minister. Even then, on those occasions when I appeared at committee and you had to grill me, or in the House of Commons, you were always fair—always fair. You were tough, but I never felt that you were an enemy. I always felt that we were actually on the same side, in the sense that both of us were trying to promote Canada's trade interests and just needed to fine-tune some of the policies a little bit.
That really is a credit not only to your skill as a critic and as a chair of this committee, but also to your character. I just want to affirm you in that. You can go into retirement knowing you have the respect of all of your colleagues in the House of Commons.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Getting to my question, I'm going to direct it to Mr. Ball and Mr. St-Jean.
Yours is the pre-eminent organization representing professional accountants in Canada, correct?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
Yes indeed.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right.
Is KPMG a member of your organization—or still a member?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
KPMG is.... Members of CPA Canada are individual members.
Conservative
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
It's members of KPMG, not KPMG itself.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Got it.
Is every accountant in Canada required to be a member of your organization?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
Every CPA in Canada is deemed a member of CPA Canada by virtue of their belonging to a provincial institute in which they're registered as a CPA.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
You don't exercise any disciplinary oversight over individual accountants, correct?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
This is the responsibility of the provincial institute or
chartered professional accountants.
That's the way the country works. The professions are managed by the provinces.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I ask that question because we've spent a fair bit of time today and in the rest of our meetings on tax evasion talking about what the government's role is and how we can do this better.
Is it a matter of resources? I think there's some evidence that it is a matter of resources. Is it a matter of simplifying the tax system? I would agree with you that this is required.
There is certainly a role for your profession itself to play, whether it's your provincial professional societies or whether it's your national organization. Are there things that your profession can do to help government ensure that the tax laws of our country are complied with, not only by your clients but by your members, the accountants themselves?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
Yes. Every CPA in Canada, by virtue of belonging to a provincial institute, is subject to a code of conduct, which is quite strict. It's in terms of behaviours and expectations of CPAs. CPAs, like all Canadians, are expected to abide by the law. Also, they're expected to abide by the code of conduct to make sure that they don't get involved with, say, tax evasion. That's a criminal act. You cannot be a CPA and do that.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
However, is it safe to assume that the tax avoidance and perhaps tax evasion strategies that are employed by companies often involve the enabling work of accountants?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
They could be non-CPA accountants. They could be many, many different kinds of people, so they're not necessarily CPAs. It can be anyone who can work in this field in Canada.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Do you know at all whether KPMG has been disciplined in any way for its role in the offshore tax strategies that it's now implicated in?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
That would be for provincial.... We're not aware of this at CPA Canada because we're not privy to this information. It would be the provincial institute or l'Ordre that would be able to provide this information.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I want to go back to the question about simplifying the tax system. I think all of us can probably come to the agreement that a simplified tax system would also lead to less tax avoidance and less tax evasion. Could you add to the number of suggestions that have already been made as to how our tax system could be simplified? A number of suggestions have been made, and I'd love to hear the two of you expand on that point.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
Maybe I could turn the floor over to my friend Bruce on this very question.
Vice-President, Taxation, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
Yes, thanks.
As I mentioned before, we think that reviewing the entire system makes sense, but through a lens that looks at whether the system is too complicated for people to comply with. That has to be one of the key questions as you look. I wouldn't be looking for one-off fixes. I'd be looking at working on the whole system and trying to simplify it in general.
I agree completely with the idea that a simplified system will increase compliance, but I think it's important to understand why compliance or non-compliance happens. It could be tax evasion, but it could also be that either people are overwhelmed and can't understand it or they do something wrong because it's too complicated. Evasion has to be dealt with, but those other two things will be aided if the tax system is simplified.