Finance Committee on Oct. 11th, 2023

[Andrew Black]

No. The easy answer is no. We know we need housing built because we have people crying out, sending emails, or posting on social media or whatever, saying they can't find any place to live.

Student housing is something altogether different. The university has its push to build residences, and there are opportunities to have off-campus housing as well, but as soon as you move a student off campus into housing in the town, it takes away an opportunity from someone who lives in the community, and we're all in the same community. I get it.

Anyway, no, there is no firm number on the housing need within our community. There's also not a firm number on how many are unhoused, because a lot of people, particularly in rural communities, are couch surfing or maybe have a tent somewhere, and it's difficult to know what that number is, as opposed to a city rate for people living on the street, where you can get a better count of the unhoused.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I will argue that in the cities we still don't have those numbers, which is problematic.

[Andrew Black]

Sure.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I'm sorry. I'll have to ask you more later. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You're out of time, MP Thompson.

We are going over to the Bloc and MP Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Like Ms. Thompson, I really want to thank both of our witnesses. We are taking a lot of notes because their comments have been very helpful.

Mr. Black, during your presentation, you talked about what a difference the CMHC-administered rapid housing initiative could make. You said the government should make it a long-term program with predictable funding. Why are you recommending that?

[Andrew Black]

I guess it depends on what the word “permanent” means. “For the foreseeable future” may be the better term because, again, the housing crisis is not going to go away quickly. In fact, I would argue that it's probably going to get worse because we're just not building enough housing.

The rapid housing initiative has been great. I will say there are some communities.... In particular, there's one in Cape Breton, although the name is escaping me right now, that got $11 million in the rapid housing initiative, and it ended up costing a significant amount of money to be able to use the funding to do the housing. They got the money and said they didn't have the capacity to be able to even understand what to do with this money.

There are some things to iron out in there, but for the foreseeable future, I think it would be important to have that, because the housing crisis is not going to go away. The funding that goes directly to municipalities is hugely important.

I'm trying to be quick.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Ste-Marie.

Now we go to the NDP and our final questioner, MP Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

My question is about the housing needs assessment, because I can appreciate why that's a barrier to municipalities with smaller resources and I can imagine that municipalities would love to have that information, just as as the federal government or the CMHC might enjoy having it.

I wonder whether you think there's a role for the federal government to work either with CMHC or with post-secondary institutions that are training students and doing this kind of work to try to facilitate proactive housing needs assessments for communities across Canada, so that this information is already at hand and is not something that municipalities have to scramble to create when they're preparing an application.

[Andrew Black]

There are two things. Because there's a recognition from the federal government and the provinces and municipalities that housing is an issue and in crisis, the housing needs assessment is hugely important. It needs to happen in order for funding to be put appropriately into communities. I think there may be a role for the federal government through the CMHC.

The other thing I'll say is that housing needs assessments are currently done by a bunch of different organizations. A municipality could reach out to a company to do it, and another municipality would reach out to a different company. The data that's collected may be the same, but it wouldn't be uniform. Having uniform housing needs assessments done within the municipalities and then regionally, provincially and federally, I think, would be advantageous.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Blaikie.

On that, on behalf of the committee members, the analysts, the clerk and the interpreters who are doing a tremendous job—we are in, I think, the only bilingual province in all of Canada—we want to thank the witnesses for their testimony. You have been excellent, and we thank you for sharing all of your information and the experiences that you are encountering here in the community. That information will inform our pre-budget consultation for budget 2024.

Thank you very much.

On that, we are going to suspend as we bring in our second panel, which I'm sure is going to be just as excellent.

Thank you, members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Welcome, everybody.

We're back with a second panel of witnesses here in beautiful Fredericton, New Brunswick, at the Standing Committee on Finance. We're doing pre-budget consultations that will inform budget 2024. We're looking forward to hearing from our second set of witnesses right now.

I'm Peter Fonseca. I'm the chair of the committee. I'm a member of Parliament from Mississauga. The other members will introduce themselves as they get into their round of questions and speak to the witnesses.

First, from the Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions, we have Maria Richard, first vice-president. We also have, from the Société Nationale de l’Acadie, Martin Théberge, president of the board of directors.

Welcome to both.

We'll start with you, Ms. Richard. You have five minutes for an opening statement. Please go ahead.

[Maria Richard, First Vice-President, New Brunswick Nurses Union, Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions]

Good morning. My name is Maria Richard, and I am the first vice-president of the New Brunswick Nurses Union. I am here today on behalf of the Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions, or CFNU.

The CFNU brings together nine provincial nurses unions from every province except Quebec, as well as the Canadian Nursing Students' Association. As Canada's largest nurses organization, the CFNU is the voice of 250,000 front-line nurses and nursing students. We work tirelessly to protect the quality of health care for patients and our public health care system.

Canada’s nurses face an extremely dire daily reality. Currently in New Brunswick, we have approximately 1,000 nursing positions vacant. For a nursing union that represents 8,500 members, this is a huge vacancy rate. At the same time, nurses are being asked to care for more patients. Retention of mid-career and late-career nurses in the province is a problem.

Nurses are tired of working overtime and being short-staffed. We know that they are leaving public health care at alarming rates. Why has New Brunswick seen an increase in the use of agency nurses in the past years, something that has never been the case for our province? It's because the retention of nurses is suffering. Not enough nurses are being hired. Nurses are burnt out and leaving the profession. Something has to give. According to a nationwide survey conducted earlier this year, four in 10 nurses intend to retire, leave their jobs or leave the nursing profession entirely.

No single province or territory can steer this ship on its own—federal leadership is needed. Budget 2024 provides a unique opportunity for the federal government to build on its historic investments in our health care systems in 2023, with targeted and strategic supports that are urgently needed to address the nursing and broader health worker shortage crisis.

In its brief to the committee, the CFNU outlines six recommendations for the 2024 federal budget. In the interest of time, I will simply list each of them, but I would be happy to elaborate on them during the discussion with the committee members.

Canada's nurses recommend that the federal government introduce a tax credit for nurses and other health professionals that incentivizes the retention and return of health professionals to the workforce.

We also recommend that the government provide funding in the amount of $8 million over four years through the Public Health Agency of Canada to tailor and pilot an Internet-delivered cognitive behavioural therapy program for nurses.

We recommend as well that the government work with the provinces and territories to set legislative limits on consecutive hours of work for nurses.

We recommend that the government include measures in the bilateral health agreements with provinces and territories that phase out private nursing agencies from provincial spending, ensuring federal investments aren't wasted on private agency profits.

We recommend that the government earmark $10 million in funding to establish a health workplace violence reduction plan that includes key recommendations from the parliamentary health committee's study from 2019, including a national public awareness campaign, a pan-Canadian framework for the prevention of violence in health care settings, targeted funding to upgrade violence prevention infrastructure and training, and appropriate training of prosecutors and public safety personnel to enforce Bill C-3.

Finally, we recommend that the government lead a national nursing retention strategy in partnership with provincial and territorial governments that advances proven retention, return and recruitment initiatives, including adopting safe staffing measures, expanding nursing programs and supporting students with mentorship and paid preceptorships, supporting nurses across their careers through initiatives such as bridging programs and flexible schedules, and expediting registration and workforce integration for internationally educated nurses through an ethical framework.

Thank you. I look forward to receiving any questions or comments on our recommendations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Richard.

Now we'll hear from Monsieur Théberge.

[Martin Théberge, President, Société nationale de l'Acadie]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for having me.

I'd like to start by saying a few words about who we are. The Société nationale de l'Acadie, or SNA, has been the voice of Acadians since 1881, making it the oldest organization in Canada's French-speaking community. SNA has a unique mission. Not only does it represent a linguistic community, but it also promotes and protects the rights and interests of a distinct population: the Acadian people. SNA brings together Acadian organizations from the four Atlantic provinces, as well as associate members from around the world.

Keeping alive and nurturing an entire people without state institutions is no easy feat. It takes considerable human resources, community support and, of course, funding.

Let me be clear: SNA is very concerned about the lack of federal support for its mission, the only one of its kind in the country.

With that in mind, I have three priorities to share with you today.

First, I want to discuss funding for National Acadian Day.

Through the celebrate Canada program, Heritage Canada funds activities to mark four major celebrations in Canada: National Indigenous Peoples Day, Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day, Canadian Multiculturalism Day and Canada Day. National Acadian Day is not one of them—despite being a unique opportunity to express our pride and our place from coast to coast to coast and to celebrate the Acadian people, their determination and their courage. The day is also an opportunity to reflect on our motto—in unity, there is strength—a value central to our history and our future.

At our urging, in 2019, Canadian Heritage began providing funding for National Acadian Day, as a pilot project under the celebration and commemoration program. The funding was not renewed in budget 2023. This financial assistance supported community activities highlighting Acadia right across the country, including in Quebec and as far as the Northwest Territories. More than 200 community celebrations have been held since 2019. In 2022, a total of 67 communities throughout the country received funding. Thanks to this support, small communities and predominantly English-speaking communities that could not afford to celebrate National Acadian Day previously were able to do so.

What's more, CBC/Radio‑Canada provides additional funding of approximately $135,000, depending on the year, to pick up and broadcast the official show. Producing a show of this scale for national broadcast by CBC/Radio‑Canada would simply not be possible without the financial support Canadian Heritage provides, which has a leveraging effect when it comes to other backers.

We strongly urge the government to make this funding permanent and include it in the next fall economic statement as well as in budget 2024. To that end, we are calling on Canadian Heritage to recognize funding for National Acadian Day as part of the celebrate Canada program.

Second, I want to talk about funding for Acadia's international mission.

For more than 60 years, SNA has been active on the international stage, working to bring together members of the Acadian community all over the world and securing a place in international bodies. Those include the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, which we have been part of since 2005, as an international non-governmental organization, and UNESCO, where we have been present since 2021.

We have extensive international experience. Take, for instance, our bilateral agreement with France, which every jurisdiction in the country has renewed since the 1960s. It's worth noting that this is the only bilateral agreement the French government has with a stakeholder that is not another government. We also have bilateral agreements with Belgium and the Wallonia-Brussels community, and a relationship with Louisiana Cajuns. Wherever it may be, we exemplify a people without a state who have a strong civil society, pioneers in community governance, youth leadership and identity-building, and a community with excellent tools for sharing its experience and know-how with the world.

The work we do and the tools we have developed to promote our culture and artists, and encourage francophone immigration and mobility among our youth are unmatched in the country. Nevertheless, the federal government fails to recognize our work and provide resources to support it. We had hoped that the government would duly recognize our civil diplomacy efforts in the new action plan for official languages, but we were sorely disappointed.

That is why we are here today, reiterating how important it is for the government to recognize the unique nature of the Acadian people and include funding in budget 2024 so that the voice of the Acadian people, SNA, can carry out its international work. We are calling on Canada to develop a civil diplomacy strategy that recognizes the Acadian community's unique nature and expertise in this arena. Targeted investments to showcase Acadian artists on the world stage and to support the international mobility of our youth would be transformational, in our view.

Third, I would like to address the issue of funding for Acadian organizations, so I will conclude by talking about all the organizations that, like the SNA, are dedicated to the development of our Acadia.

Dramatic increases in the cost of living and inflation have put a strain on our already modest budgets. This situation, which affects all sectors of our society, makes our work increasingly difficult and has a negative impact on our employees and volunteers, who are constantly being asked to do more. We are therefore asking for an increase in core funding for our organizations to correct this imbalance.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attention. I hope you will see that this is about recognizing the Acadian people, but also about the fact that the initiatives we are putting in place are beneficial to Canada as a whole, to its values and its own actions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Théberge.

As we move into our first round of questions, I did introduce myself and I'm going to ask the members to reintroduce themselves, as this is our second panel of witnesses. As I said, with just two witnesses, we have time for you to be able to expand and elaborate. We'll give a fair amount of leeway to the amount of time that we usually give to the different parties and members.

With that, we are starting with the Conservatives. As I said, there is leeway.

MP Stewart, you have six minutes.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, both of you, for being here today.

My question is for Mr. Théberge.

I am wondering about your annual budget. Could you tell us what your annual budget would be?

[Martin Théberge]

Our annual budget varies a lot, because it's mainly based on projects. Our base funding is at $363,000, if I remember correctly. Then the rest is all projects. With that $363,000, we manage to have three members of a very strong team. How do you say it—“small but mighty”? That's our team.

Then we have been able, through the years, to raise funding through projects and different initiatives to have a team of up to 10 people. That, in itself, is almost a full-time job for one person—to just do grant applications and the reports that come from it and whatnot.

Our yearly budget will vary; it's around roughly $1 million, maybe a little more. However, the core funding is at $363,000.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Okay.

You mentioned Acadian artists.

Obviously, the government has passed laws that basically censor things on the Internet. It wants to control what Canadians see online, what they say online, what they hear online. Earlier, before that bill went through.... I mean, I was a musician and a singer. As for my children, some of them are musicians and some of them write music as well, as I did. In the early goings, some of the musicians I knew thought it would be good. That was in the early goings. However, near the end, they were really disappointed. Some of them are influencers, too. They run podcasts and such. Some of the musicians in particular that I was speaking to....

Have you had any conversation with those in your membership who are concerned? I mean, clearly one of your top priorities is Acadian artists and the promotion of them, which I think is extremely important. I agree with you 100% on that. I'm just wondering whether you have had any feedback from your normal Acadian membership on the censorship on the Internet with respect to their artistry.

[Martin Théberge]

I will speak in French, because there are technical terms that I am less familiar with in English.

I can't speak specifically to the situation of artists in Canada, because our work is really more export-oriented, meaning, artists who go outside the country. However, there is a continuum. For example, a local artist is invited to play guitar at a sugar shack event, and then ends up touring provincially and later nationally. A number of organizations support these people, and their representatives will be able to speak to the situation better than I can. For our part, we take over when professional artists are ready to export. We collaborate with festivals in Europe, Louisiana and elsewhere. Our job is really to promote and export the artists and their cultural products. That's what we're working on, but our funding is decreasing.

For example, the Réseau atlantique de diffusion des arts de la scène, or RADARTS, organizes the annual FrancoFête en Acadie. We usually manage to raise money to bring in international delegations, who in turn buy shows to present in Europe. However, their funding is also decreasing. As we often say in French, it's like melting snow in the sun. That's what's happening. The entire continuum is affected.

I can't answer your question exactly, and I apologize for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have about two minutes left.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you.

I appreciate your answer and clearly I understand. To promote the local artisans whether they're going on the road or doing a local performance or abroad, I get that. It's extremely important. I got what you said on funding. Clearly, funding for the arts is always important. I agree 100% on that, and I can only imagine how important it would be to the Acadians as well. I'm just saying that the censorship legislation will make it more difficult for Acadians to promote their art on the Internet.

Government funding may come and it may not come. You may get more support. You may not. Clearly, so far you're not, but I'm saying that the promotion of their art will be restricted more because of these new Internet laws, and I think that's going to be very restrictive for artists. I just wanted to point that out.

I also wanted to say that I have the privilege of representing Acadians in Baie-Sainte-Anne, Escuminac, Neguac, Rogersville, Lagacéville and Hacheyville.

I think Rogersville has a new name. I have to get it right: Nouvelle-Arcadie.

I appreciate you being here today. I'll probably have some more questions in a bit.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Martin Théberge]

I have taken note of it. I'll follow up on this as well. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, MP Stewart.

Now we'll go to the Liberals with MP Thompson, please.