Finance Committee on Dec. 7th, 2023

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I appreciate your response.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

The Canada growth fund is supposed to be an independent arm's-length fund. Was it appropriate that as minister of the Crown you appeared at the first investment of the Canada growth fund when PSP Investments is supposed to manage this fund at an arm's-length basis?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I'm, of course, very familiar with the structure of the Canada growth fund, because our government created it. It was our government's decision to structure it as we did, because we know that the professionals at PSP know how to make investments.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Do you show up to CPPIB investment announcements?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

The CPPIB is structured very differently from the Canada growth fund.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

They're both at arm's length.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

The CPPIB also has a provincial role.

The CPPIB and the Canada growth fund are entirely different in their structure. The Canada growth fund was created by our government. It was our idea to structure it as we did.

I believe that it is very important right now, at a time when there is a race in the world for investments in—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate the—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

No. You didn't give me a chance to finish, actually—

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

The Canada Infrastructure Bank—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Minister and MP Chambers, that is the time.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have a brief point of order, Mr. Chair.

It's my understanding that generally we should get time in respect of the number of seats we have in the House, especially when it is a minister. I've raised this point of order before.

It should be Conservatives getting five minutes, or at least six minutes, because we have considerably more seats, with all due respect to my colleagues from the NDP and the Bloc Québécois.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I will speak to that.

It has been the practice for two years at this committee that when we do not have enough time to do a full round, we then share that time in a very cordial way among parties.

We are running up against that time right now. That is why, before we started this round, I said that each party would have about four minutes because we didn't have enough time for a full round. That's what we just did with MP Chambers, as we will do with the other members.

It is up to the members, but that is a practice that I feel has worked well for our committee here. If members think otherwise, they may decide otherwise. Right now, we're continuing with the way we've always done it.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have just a brief point. I will reserve on that with respect to my colleagues. Maybe we can talk about that in committee business.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Lawrence.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

On that point of order, Mr. Chair, at 11:45, there were 15 minutes left, which would have left enough time for five minutes, five minutes, two and a half, and two and a half, which would have been the conventional second round. There was enough time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Again, MP Morantz, that would be breaking up a full second round.

We're eating up time here, actually, as we speak. That would be breaking up time from what is a conventional second round. A full second round has five, five, two and a half, two and a half, five and five.

As you know, we have not been super-stringent in terms of cutting people off right at the minute. Actually, I've given a lot of latitude and a lot of leeway for more time so that we could have thorough answers and discussion here.

That could be a conversation for another time. At this time, I think members want to ask questions of the minister in the precious time we have right now.

I'm going to go to MP Weiler for four minutes, please.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll give a special thank you to Minister Freeland for joining our committee to give testimony on the study we're doing on the financialization of housing.

It's important, because housing is absolutely top of mind for all Canadians and certainly my constituents. We've seen the rising cost of rent causing stress, and many are feeling like they're not going to ever be able to afford a home.

Minister, I was hoping you could speak to the work that our government is doing to build more homes in my province of British Columbia.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Weiler.

As you know very well, B.C. is one of the provinces where the housing crisis is the most acute. I think we are all rightly very focused on that.

I want to also take the chance, since we're talking about B.C., to thank the provincial government of B.C. for their very collaborative approach and very strong housing program. They're a great partner for us. We very much have B.C. in mind when we're designing housing programs. We are trying very hard, wherever we have shared objectives—which is pretty much everywhere—to build programs that work together.

One example of that is our measure on Airbnb and short-term rentals. That's a place where the government of B.C. has really been leaning in. We looked at the tool box we had federally, at Finance Canada, and how we could use it to help strengthen the B.C. measures. I must say that I was very pleased to read a real estate agent quoted in the Toronto Star over the weekend. He said he was seeing a real change in the housing market in Victoria. He attributed that to people who were holding apartments as short-term rentals understanding that it's no longer economical and releasing them into the market. That's just one specific example of how cracking down on short-term rental can provide immediate relief in some of the most stressed housing markets in the country, including B.C.

Just last week, I was in Vancouver at a project for the construction of 231 affordable housing units in the Downtown Eastside. I would like to particularly point out to this committee, and to the Canadians who may be watching us, that I first went to this project two years ago when it was empty land and shovels were going into the ground. I went back last week, and it's almost finished.

By the way, the people building those homes were very proud of the work they were doing. They went out of their way to say that it gives them personal satisfaction to be building affordable homes. These are very nice places. A lot of them have beautiful mountain views and they're right in downtown Vancouver. There was a studio unit starting at $550 a month. I saw a two-bedroom for $750 month that was very nice. We need to do much more, but it is possible to build affordable housing in the cities where it is needed the most.

I'll give a shout-out to the Vancouver Chinatown Foundation, which was instrumental in doing this.

Let me also give a shout-out to the City of Kelowna. They now have a housing accelerator fund deal that includes making city lands available for affordable housing and having more homes built near transit.

Let me also point out that we are very keen to see the impact of the lifting of the GST on purpose-built rental housing in B.C. and the additional $20 billion to the Canada mortgage bonds program. We definitely need more apartments in B.C., and those two programs will lead to a lot more being built.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Weiler. That is the time.

We're now off to MP Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to split my speaking time with my colleague, Mr. Morrice, who represents very important values. If you could stop me after two minutes, I would let him have my last two minutes of speaking time.

Minister, on the subject of housing, cracking down on Airbnb is an excellent measure. Using federal lands for building social housing is an excellent measure. These are two very good measures.

A lot of witnesses have reminded us of the importance of having an acquisition fund for getting existing rental units out of the market in order to protect them from financialization and make sure they stay affordable. That is very important.

In the economic statement, I get the impression that you have stolen an idea from the bill introduced by the Conservative leader. One thing you could do is to reduce infrastructure transfers if municipalities do not build enough housing. I am enormously concerned about such a measure. With higher interest rates, for example, we have seen housing starts collapse in Quebec. That is not the municipalities' fault, but it leads to lengthy delays.

I would like to hear more details about this measure that you want to adopt, to threaten municipalities that their funding for housing will be cut if they do not build enough units.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question.

You have touched on several things, but I would first like to make a comment concerning public lands: the federal government has a number of land holdings, but so do the provinces and municipalities. I think that if the federal, provincial and municipal governments took a collaborative approach, we could build more housing. As I said earlier, we have an agreement with Kelowna, which is going to add its lands. I think it is a good idea to try to do it together where possible.

Concerning our approach with municipalities, we generally prefer a collaborative approach. We understand that there are difficulties and that is why we have created the housing accelerator fund. We took an asymmetrical approach with Quebec, where our housing agreement offers $900,000. For the rest of Canada, we are negotiating with the municipalities. In fact, when I speak with mayors all across Canada, they find this approach to be really useful. The federal government has a point of view...

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Minister.

MP Ste-Marie is sharing his time. Next is MP Morrice, please.