Thanks.
Evidence of meeting #126 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #126 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, MP Collins.
As one of our last two questioners, we have MP Lawrence.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you very much.
I am going to follow up on my colleague's questions. They're excellent questions, I might add.
Because of this government's refusal to list the IRGC as a terrorist group, are you saying that they're not tracked and there is no reporting responsibility because of that failure, even though numerous times in Parliament, over and over again, we have called upon the government to list it as terrorist and it won't?
12:50 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Our intelligence and law enforcement partners would be more aware of how they are tracked. What we do in the context of the NIRA is work and focus on those that are listed in the Criminal Code, but I wouldn't want to give you the impression that our intelligence partners or law enforcement are not looking at it.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
You'd be obligated to perform additional reporting and monitoring for listed entities as opposed to non-listed entities. Is that not correct?
12:50 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
That's correct, yes. There is a ministerial directive that relates to that.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
If in fact they were listed, as has been asked for by Parliament multiple times, it would provide greater monitoring of the IRGC.
12:50 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
To answer your question on the terrorist organizations, reporting entities are required to follow the terrorist organizations and ensure they are looking at those specifically. In addition, in the PCMLTFA, the minister has the ability to issue directives with respect to certain partners that may pose a danger to—
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Is there a directive with respect to—
12:50 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
There is a directive with respect to Iran.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Could you table that with the committee?
12:50 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
Yes, we can.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you.
They are not a terrorist organization; they're not currently designated as such. As they are not currently listed as a terrorist organization, that could limit or reduce the amount of monitoring, therefore allowing for greater funding of Iran and its terrorist activities.
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
The Iran directive is not specific to any one entity. It is with respect to transactions with Iran. Reporting entities are required to place additional due diligence on—
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
If they were listed, would there be greater monitoring?
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
There would be additional monitoring with respect to their role as a terrorist entity, like other terrorist entities.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Presumably, if the IRGC were subject to greater monitoring, and if money laundering was going on, we would be able to stop more of it. We are allowing more money to go out every day to the IRGC, a terrorist organization, because of this government's wilful disobedience of the will of Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
Under the PCMLTFA, every organization has obligations to identify what it sees as suspicious transaction reporting. That remains, regardless. They have to do additional due diligence with respect to Iran due to the ministerial directive in force.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
However, listed organizations have a higher standard than non-listed organizations.
12:55 p.m.
Director, Financial Crimes Policy, Department of Finance
For listed organizations, those types of financial transactions would be prohibited.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Therefore it's a higher standard.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you for that.
How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
To conclude, we know you're doing the best you can. If my frustration came out towards you, I apologize. It's just extremely frustrating to me that Parliament has voted multiple times to give you the additional tools you need to prevent the IRGC from laundering money through our country to fund their terrorist activities. We need to give you guys the ability to do that.
I'll ask one last time so we're clear. If, in fact, the IRGC were listed as a terrorist organization, would your ability to stop their money laundering activities be enhanced? Just say yes or no.