Evidence of meeting #126 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
Under our sanctions laws, Canadians are prohibited from dealing with sanctioned entities.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you.
I'll leave the last....
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Mr. Chair, in the last minute, I want to confirm this with the witnesses. There have been substantial requests made for documentation, investigation numbers and those kinds of things. I want to make sure, following routine proceedings, that within three weeks, as it is outlined, we can get those answers from the officials. Can I get you to confirm that?
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Well, I know the officials will make their best effort to get us the information that has been requested and that they said they can provide.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
For any undertakings that have been confirmed, I want to make sure we get that.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Yes, we will, regarding what has been requested of the officials.
We're going to MP Weiler.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Earlier in your testimony, you brought up the significant investments that have been made in law enforcement in recent years to better collect and share data related to organized crime and money laundering. I think you mentioned about $319 million.
Also in your testimony, you mentioned some of the challenges with operational effectiveness. Of course, this is a very challenging topic. You're dealing with organized crime operating over multiple jurisdictions and using shell companies, in many cases, to obscure the real ownership of different assets in order to exploit wherever there may be a gap. That speaks to the ongoing challenge of updating the regime.
Speaking of operational challenges, one of the things proposed a couple of years ago was the creation of a Canada financial crimes agency. I know this is a Public Safety lead. They've been leading a consultation for over a year now on this.
I am curious to know, from your point of view, what role you see Finance playing in such an agency. What type of input have you provided to the consultation as this body is being contemplated?
12:55 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
We've been working closely with Public Safety and the rest of the regime partners. This has been a topic discussed in governance committees at the DG, ADM and DM levels. We've had a number of discussions with enforcement partners as well to identify the challenges and the scope we would envisage for a financial crimes agency. I would say that work is ongoing.
As I said, I think there are some constitutional limits to what can be done, and there are questions of policing reform to be addressed. These are important and broad questions, so they are all being discussed in the context of this initiative. We're hopeful that within the short to medium term, we'll be able to land on a recommendation that will be presented to cabinet.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
I'm very much looking forward to seeing what that is. Oftentimes, it's a big challenge for the prosecution service and for law enforcement to have the dedicated expertise—forensic accountants and others—to be able to go after this type of crime. I would be looking forward to seeing that as well.
We talked a bit today about the importance of working with the provinces and territories. We've seen a number of provinces take some pretty significant steps on civil forfeiture. My province of British Columbia, just last year, passed legislation to allow for unexplained wealth orders. This is really important when you're trying to tackle a very complex level of crime where, in a way, you can reverse the onus so the suspect will have to prove how an asset was achieved.
What are your thoughts about the federal government looking at introducing a similar type of measure within its area of jurisdiction? How might that help with tackling money laundering in Canada?
1 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Certainly, we're conscious of and have looked at the B.C. experience on unexplained wealth orders. It's been an area of discussion as well between the federal government and B.C.
It's an area where we welcome the committee's views on the federal role, mindful that the provinces play a closer role when it comes to unexplained wealth orders. However, within the federal jurisdiction, how can we help advance that case? In the consultation paper, we specifically consulted on that and received some feedback in that regard, but we welcome the committee's views on it.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
We have a request to look at unexplained wealth orders, artificial intelligence, cryptocurrencies and potential offences. Are there any other areas you would like this committee to explore in the forthcoming parliamentary review of the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act?
1 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
We also talked about the intersection between financial crimes and sanctions. That's an area of growing concern.
I would suggest another area. How do we actually streamline some of the obligations that are imposed on Canadian businesses? Regulation in the sector is really important, but at the same time, we realize that it places a heavy burden on our financial institutions to ensure that they comply. We'd welcome your views on how we potentially create efficiencies there without damaging the regime or damaging the intelligence we gather. How do we make it easier for Canadian businesses to comply with their obligations?
1 p.m.
Director General, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Department of Finance
If I could add to Julien's answer, the consultation document took a really broad look at the regime. We would welcome the committee's views on the areas that were advanced in the consultation document. We deliberately looked at a variety of different topics that could warrant further review.
1 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have a point of order. On Thursday of next week, if all goes well, the committee should be able to adopt the report on the pre-budget consultations. Up to now, we have not set a date for when each party would be able to submit a dissenting or supplementary opinion. I would like to ask your guidance so we can choose a date for submitting our dissenting or supplementary opinions.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That's a great question. Thank you for that.
Next Thursday we will be doing the PBC report. I don't want to presume whether we'll get through it. I would love to say that we're going to get through it on Thursday. If that happens, we have a break week after that before we come back. I would want to table that right away in the House, and that would be next Monday.
It would probably be next Friday.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That's dependent on getting through the PBC. I wish I could foretell the future, but I can't.
What we can do right now is thank our great Department of Finance officials for being with us and for giving us so much testimony for this study. We really appreciate your time and your coming on such short notice.
The meeting is adjourned.