Finance Committee on April 30th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Go ahead, Mr. Clerk.

(Clause 9 agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

Shall clause 10 carry?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'd like a recorded division, please.

(Clause 10 agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Shall clause 11 carry?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'd like a recorded division.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Davies, your hand is up.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Yes. I have a bit of a question.

First of all, through you, Mr. Chair, could I get from the clerk how many clauses there are in this bill?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

There are 365.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I would just like speak to this process. I'm new to this committee, so I'm not sure what the habit is.

We had a deadline to get in amendments. We all were given lots of time. We had those amendments drafted as a courtesy to all the members of this committee, I would think, so that we all know what the amendments are. It's a very, very thick bill, and it's hard to know where we're going in the bill. Of course, it gives us some time to study the amendments and to consult with stakeholders and our staff and team to determine how we'll vote.

At this committee, I heard the Conservatives say that they would pass this bill as is, in a heartbeat, if they could get their way, I guess, in having a witness come. They didn't get their way on the witness—although I suppose they still could call Mr. Carney in a few weeks, if they wanted to, in the study—but they're now forcing us to go clause by clause without any amendments.

I'm just wondering if my Conservative colleagues can perhaps explain to me why they would do that. Why are we voting on each clause, when they've submitted no amendments, have no discussion on them, and are forcing recorded votes when we could have votes on division?

There are how many clauses, again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

There are 365.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

There are 365, and we're on clause 10. It will take weeks to get through this bill if the Conservatives continue doing this.

I respect that they can oppose the bill. Their votes on division will reflect that, but the only conclusion I can draw from forcing a process where we are forcing a recorded vote on every single clause when there is no amendment to it or discussion or questions, is that the Conservatives purely want to delay this bill. If I'm missing something, I'd be happy to hear their alternate explanation for that.

Regardless of partisan perspective on this committee, all we're talking about here is the efficiency of how this committee works. We're going to get through this one way or the other. I don't see how it's common sense to drag out a bill and take weeks to pass something that we'll pass in the end. It could be passed quickly. They themselves said they would pass it quickly half an hour ago if they got a witness they wanted.

I'm just wondering if my Conservative colleagues can explain to me, if I'm missing something, that their only purpose in enforcing an individual vote on every clause is to delay the passage of the bill?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Davies.

I have MP Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

With respect, I don't believe it would take weeks. There isn't a prolonged debate or discussion.

I think it is part of our democratic duty to get our votes on record. That's one of our primary responsibilities, whether in committee or in the House. However, out of courtesy and respect for my colleague, I would move that we group....

I'm sorry, which one are we at right now, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We are at clause 11.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I move that we group clauses 11 to 14 for one vote there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Do we have unanimous consent?

(Motion agreed to)

Shall clauses 11 to 14 carry?

(Clauses 11 to 14 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 15)

Shall clause 15 carry?

I see MP Chambers has his hand up.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I have provided it in writing to the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Yes, thank you.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I would like to amend the date, “October 1, 2023”, to “October 1, 2024”.

I have a question for officials, since they're here.

In the last few years, I've noticed an interesting trend, which is to make tax increases retroactive. The bank dividend tax was retroactive to a tax year that was already closed. We changed some HST treatment—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Chambers, we need the page and the line, please.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

It's on page 101, in subsection 2.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Just give us a moment.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

We're on clause 15, aren't we?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Is that line number 9?

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Sure.

They're not numbered. The lines aren't numbered.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're just going to take a moment, members.