Evidence of meeting #145 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:50 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
It's a pretty significant contradiction to talk about disposing of your properties, your real estate assets, and then simultaneously calling people back to work. Would you agree?
1:50 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
It is somewhat inexplicable. I don't have a good explanation for it. I don't see the need for it. I don't see why you need to change people's work-life balance and the arrangement they've been working in for years very productively. It's for no reason that we can see.
1:50 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
That's 15% of their property holdings. This could end us up in a situation where we lease back, in perpetuity, commercial properties and office settings that we otherwise would have owned, which seems nonsensical to me.
I think you spoke a bit about pay, retention and recruitment. In your view, how does the back-to-work policy impact the ability to recruit and retain?
1:50 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
I think it will be significantly impacted. Again, this is becoming more common in other industries and in the private sector. The world has changed. How we do work has changed. We have people going into work now—in some cases full time, but for at least three days a week—who spend their whole day on Zoom calls. For example, for hearing officers like us, all hearings are now done by Zoom. Those could absolutely be done from home. There's no reason for the government to spend all that money to retrofit properties to force people to come in to do that.
1:50 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Have they given any indication to PSAC of how they plan to reconcile reducing their office portfolio by 50% with the apparent contradiction of mandating employees back to the office?
1:50 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
Again, there's been no consultation whatsoever.
1:50 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Was there any response to your letter? Did they even give you the courtesy of a response, one from the Treasury Board to the PSAC, on this particular topic?
1:50 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
To my knowledge, I'm not sure.
Liam, would you know?
No, I don't think we've gotten a response yet.
1:50 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
To this day, there's been no response.
I'm a proud New Democrat. I'm the labour critic as well. I'm here virtually via Zoom. We have other members from all parties who participate via Zoom. Parliament seems to continue to work, and I would agree that there are increases in productivity to be had.
As to this complete contradiction, I'm not sure whether I should attribute it to malice or incompetence administratively, quite frankly. I'll say on the record that those are my words, not yours.
What do you think the future is going to be like with forcing people back in this way without any inclusion and consultation with the unions?
1:50 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
I think it absolutely has to change. You have to ask the people doing the work how best to do the work. You have to make telework arrangements on an individual basis with every employee.
We understand fully that there are jobs you cannot do remotely. You cannot be a border services officer working at a port of entry from home, clearly, but if you are able to do your work from home and you've shown over many years that you can do it effectively and be even more productive, there's absolutely no reason to not enjoy that benefit.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, MP Green.
Members, we're going into our second round. We have very limited time. It will be two minutes for each party to ask your final couple of questions.
We're starting with MP Morantz for two minutes.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Boms, I think you're back with us. Do I have that right?
1:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Financial Data and Technology Association of North America
I certainly hope so.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Canada is suffering from a productivity crisis according to the senior deputy governor of the Bank of Canada. She warned about that in a speech a couple of months ago and said that in case of emergency “break glass”. It's a very serious situation.
Canada is lagging behind on the implementation of open banking and real-time rail. I'm wondering if you could, in the short time we have, lay out the benefits of those policies, the impact on consumers and the negative effects of Canada not having those policies in place vis-à-vis our peer nations.
1:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Financial Data and Technology Association of North America
I'm happy to. Thank you for the question.
There are several benefits. I'll just highlight a few.
Number one is access to affordable credit and capital. We saw this in many other jurisdictions during the COVID pandemic. The smallest small businesses were able to use non-banks to access credit faster and more efficiently than through larger banks. Canada is the only country in the G7 that did not facilitate that type of access because there wasn't open banking to facilitate it.
For consumers, there's more competition. The more players that exist in the financial sector, the lower the fees, the better the service and the better the opportunity to find the solution that's right for you. For new Canadians, for example, who might not have a traditional credit history, using transaction data to demonstrate that they are in fact creditworthy can enable them to achieve affordable credit in ways that can help them be more productive members of society, make purchases, buy a car or get a mortgage.
There are many benefits. Those are just a few that I would highlight.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you very much. That's excellent.
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
1:55 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Good afternoon to everyone.
First, to the Public Service Alliance, I really want to say on the record a big thank you to all your members for what they do on a daily basis for Canadians, whether it's the CBSA officer at an airport or border crossing or the various roles that Public Service Alliance members perform every day for Canadians. I really want to say thank you very much for that.
I want to ask a question of Utcha Sawyers on food banks.
I want to get on the record the programs we've put in place. I'll turn it over to you for the last 30 seconds. There is the Canada child benefit, which is going up to $7,800 a year for children under six. Obviously, it's a means-tested program. There's the national early learning day care program, which will be $10 on average in Ontario by September 2025. There's also a national food program. When you're putting these transformational pillars together, they put together a great foundation for children in Canada.
Ms. Sawyers, how important is this national food program for children who really need it?
1:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, BGC East Scarborough
It's critical. The reality is that a child who is malnourished.... This is what we're facing in a lot of communities. It's not just children who are hungry. We're facing children who are malnourished because their parents have to choose between paying the rent, paying utilities and buying quality food or even buying food, period. They're often going to food banks that don't have the diversity for healthy, nutrient-dense, balanced diets. I would say that, rather than a foundation, it is a step in the right direction for providing an additional layer of support.
The reality is that the families with the most critical needs are experiencing extreme financial poverty. They're behind in rent by four to six months. Some of them have parents who are laid off and some don't have access to any additional financial resources, other than those they're receiving through OW, family benefits and the benefits you mentioned.
On top of that, the cost of living, especially in Toronto, is astronomical. Quite often food is the first thing to go or the first thing to be whittled down, given access, on the list of priorities. Unfortunately, it's the most critical thing that children and youth need in order to live healthy, thriving lives.
1:55 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Weber, I'd like to react to a comment we just heard. I understand that there are no contract negotiations with you, that you're not being consulted, that they can't pay you properly, and that the Phoenix pay system has not been fixed. You've also been required to use the Canada Life insurance company when it has all kinds of problems, and so on. Thank you for what you've been doing in spite of it all. I have a lot of respect for you.
I'd like to go back to a topic you mentioned in your presentation about some of the trades, like firefighters.
Can you tell us more about the trades you mentioned and repeat your explanation of the current problems being experienced in negotiating on their behalf?
Once again, thank you very much and I can tell you that you have my full support.
2 p.m.
National President, Customs and Immigration Union
Regarding the “25 and out” retirement benefits and the ability to retire after 25 years without penalty, I included—along with CIU members and CBSA officers—federal firefighters and fisheries officers, who are in the same situation, unfortunately. We as a group all have to work longer than pretty much all other public safety or law enforcement personnel.