Finance Committee on May 31st, 2024

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

That's very clear. Let's hope that things change as soon as possible.

As for the Canada Life insurance company, which has been handling the group insurance plan for public servants for a number of months, have you seen any improvement or is it still a mess?

At our riding offices, we keep getting all kinds of complaints about the Phoenix pay system and the Canada Life group insurance plan.

[Mark Weber]

I think Liam would be in the best position to answer that.

[Liam McCarthy, Director, Negotiations and Programs Branch, Public Service Alliance of Canada]

The major issue with Canada Life at this point is that, while the cases have been going down, there was a six-month allowance for Canada Life to perform substandard...upon the transfer over to Canada Life. The major issue we're still dealing with is that there should not have been worked into the transfer contract an allowance of lower rates. Our members faced issues like being on hold for very long periods of time to try to get through and not being able to get their claims processed. While the claims are improving, there was a significant period of time when people were effectively being denied getting their extended health benefits in a timely fashion.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste-Marie.

Now we'll go to MP Green.

MP Green, you'll have two minutes, and these will be the final questions for this panel.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

There's certainly been a lot of discussion in the House about the government's gross misuse of consultants—it's in the billions of dollars—yet in budget 2024, the federal government announced plans to decrease the public service by 5,000 full-time equivalents.

Has the federal government consulted with PSAC on how these job cuts will impact specific departments and agencies, Mr. Weber?

[Mark Weber]

Not in any specific way, no. We've just seen the overall numbers that you have.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

In your view, does that make sense? Does it make sense that they can cut public service full-time equivalents and regain control of this consultant class, this shadow government of consultants—McKinsey, Deloitte and others—that they've created to the tune of $15 billion?

[Mark Weber]

I think any reduction in private consultants is positive.

In terms of where the cuts should be made, again, you need to consult with the people who do the work to know where to make cuts. At our borders, if it is the upper management echelon at CBSA deciding where to make cuts, they would have absolutely no idea whatsoever.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Could you outline how these job cuts will impact service delivery for Canadians?

[Mark Weber]

It could be severe. It's difficult to say, not knowing how many positions, where, and what's going to be cut. As a rule—and my experience is with the CBSA—upper management and middle management continue to grow and bloat while the number of people who work the front line and service Canadians continues to shrink. It's very worrisome to think about where they're probably aiming those cuts.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I can imagine—I've managed people before—that those types of cuts often lead to gapping, where you have two or three positions on the shoulders of one worker.

Could you outline how these job cuts might potentially impact PSAC members?

[Mark Weber]

Absolutely. Many of our members, not just in the CBSA but across the federal public service, are doing double or triple duty. Many places are scrambling and are very overstaffed. They're trying to service Canadians and get work done in the manner that Canadians deserve. I take great pride in the work they do under difficult circumstances. With the lack of resources, the idea of cuts is frightening.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

My last question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Green.

We're at the—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have 15 seconds. I time myself. I don't know what timer—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Well, it's at 2:25 right now, but go ahead.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You have a Liberal timer, man. Come on now.

In your view, does the imposition of this mandate comply with the federal government's legal obligation under division 3 of the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act as it relates to consultations?

[Mark Weber]

I'm sorry. I wasn't able to hear the question.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Does the imposition of the back-to-work mandate and the cuts violate the legal obligation under division 3 of the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act, which is about consultations?

[Mark Weber]

Yes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Green.

We want to thank our excellent witnesses. Thank you for coming before the finance committee on Bill C-69. We wish you the best with the rest of your day.

Members, we are adjourned.