Finance Committee on Jan. 31st, 2022

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Chair; and thank you to all the guests here today.

I want to go the Green Budget Coalition.

Something we often hear, relevant to different levels of society and how they can be successful in addressing climate change, is “environmental justice”. You talked a bit about it.

Can you provide what you would like to see by way of environmental justice? Would it be an effect of different geographical areas across the country, based on society's levels of income, and so on?

[Andrew Van Iterson]

Thank you, Mr. MacDonald. I appreciate the question. I'm going to turn back to Vanessa Corkal on that one.

[Vanessa Corkal]

We think it's great that there's interest in this issue.

Our recommendation stems mostly around establishing an office of environmental justice and equity. This stems from our research internationally, particularly in the United States, where they have a number of whole-of-government approaches to really make sure this is mainstreamed across government. That's also happening in their legislation. They've had an office of environmental justice since the 1990s; and in the early 1990s, through an executive order, they established an inter-agency working group on this issue.

We're asking for $25 million over two years in start-up funds for a similar sort of office that would develop a national strategy on the issue and additional funding to keep that office operating, as well as $7 million per year for funding to expand our data collection on the Canadian environmental sustainability indicators to better figure out which kind of communities need assistance.

There are also great linkages between environmental justice and just transition.

If you have other questions, I'm happy to answer them.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

You also talk a bit about Health Canada policy in relation to developing further programs.

How do we see Health Canada being involved in the programs that you intend to develop or existing programs that maybe don't have Health Canada's input at the present time?

[Vanessa Corkal]

There are two answers to that question. First, in our document, we have included a recommendation for the HealthADAPT program. There are very clear linkages between climate change and health impacts, and they are expected to rise, so we're asking for funding to expand Health Canada's current HealthADAPT program, which helps communities adapt to climate change and address some of those health impacts.

Of course, there are also linkages to environmental justice. There are some clear opportunities where Health Canada, through collaboration with the proposed office, could support ongoing assessment of some of these environmental health hazards affecting, in particular, racialized and disadvantaged communities. There are some great opportunities there.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have two minutes.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

I want to touch on something that I didn't see anywhere, or I don't believe I did, in your report. It's about green bonds.

We all know that climate change is going to take more of an effort than just that of any federal, provincial or municipal government. It's going to be outside in the private sector. I know we have seen a major increase. They're talking about $500 billion in 2021 investments in green bonds. It has exploded over the past two or three years.

What are your thoughts on green bonds, and how can we incorporate them in some of the projects that you've outlined, if it's possible?

[Vanessa Corkal]

Andrew, you can return to that, if you'd like.

[Andrew Van Iterson]

I'll turn back to Vanessa.

[Vanessa Corkal]

Okay. Thanks. I didn't want to speak over you.

The first thing to note is that our document is certainly not comprehensive in terms of all the possible things we need to be doing, in particular with our financial system, regarding greening the financial system. You're right; we don't have a direct recommendation on green bonds. I would say that our members are largely supportive and we've seen a lot of success in other countries.

My institute has done a bit of research on that as an aspect of sustainable finance. Last year, we published our Green Strings report on how to align budget actions with climate conditions, and they're mentioned in that report too.

We're broadly supportive, but at the same time, I don't want to go into too much detail on behalf of the coalition, because we don't have a specific recommendation on them.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. MacDonald.

We are moving now to the Bloc and Monsieur Ste-Marie for two minutes.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Giroux.

Mr. Giroux, according to your report, the additional expenditures that were initially allocated for the economic recovery are no longer necessary. You said so in your presentation.

Could you give us some more details about that?

[Yves Giroux]

Of course.

As I mentioned in my report a few days ago, the government committed to reduce expenditures for the economic recovery as soon as some labour market metrics return to their pre-pandemic levels. These include the number of hours worked, the unemployment rate, the participation rate, and the number of jobs. As we saw in December's economic update, the government stated that the number of jobs had even surpassed its pre-pandemic level.

However, contrary to the government's suggestion in the fall 2020 update and in Budget 2021, when it stated that it would be reducing the measures for economic recovery, that reduction was no longer mentioned in the economic update in December 2021.

If the government has changed its rationale for those expenditures, it is perfectly legitimate. However, in my recent comments, I emphasized that the initial rationale that the government itself presented, by which the economic recovery was linked to labour market indicators, no longer seems to be the case. I also meant that, if the government sees a need to continue those expenditures for other reasons, that is completely within its prerogative. However, it should clearly spell out its rationale, because, if we use the government's indicators, it seems no longer necessary to spend as much on the economic recovery.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, do I have time for another question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have 10 seconds. You can make a little statement if you'd like.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste-Marie.

Now we're moving to the NDP and Mr. Blaikie for two and a half minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

Going back to the Green Budget Coalition, when you talked about an office of environmental justice and equity, I think Ms. Corkal was about to offer some thoughts about how such an office could help.

Obviously, climate change is bringing economic disruption. It's happening already and it's going to increase in the years to come. We can either wait and let it happen or we can plan for it and try to mitigate the worst of those outcomes, not just for the planet, but also for Canadians who are going to want to have employment and work.

I wonder if you could speak to how the establishment of an office of environmental justice and equity could help with that planning, to ensure that Canadians are ready to do the work that's available as the economy changes in the face of the climate challenge.

[Vanessa Corkal]

Before I answer, I want to give a shout-out to my colleague, Lisa Gue at the David Suzuki Foundation, who really is spearheading much of this work. She's not here today, but if anyone has additional questions, I'd be happy to connect you with her later.

Essentially, what this office is intended to do is allow Canada to develop, at the federal level, coordinated capacity to do some advanced thinking on this. It's safe to say we're already behind, since we have these racial inequities when it comes to environmental justice, but we know that those are going to worsen as the climate changes and as low-income and racialized communities experience the brunt of climate impacts. They don't have as much capacity to be able to adapt and have those resources.

Obviously, a lot of planning will happen under the national adaptation strategy, but a dedicated office for environmental justice will also contribute to some of those objectives, because it will help us understand some of those preventable environmental health hazards faced by these communities and assess the types of interventions that are needed to protect them.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

I think that's probably just about my time, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have about 20 seconds, Mr. Blaikie. Do you want to cede that time?

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

That's fine, then. It's hard to do a lot in 20 seconds, so I'll let that time go.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You are quite right.

We're moving to the Conservatives and Mr. Chambers for five minutes.