Finance Committee on Sept. 24th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Morantz, are you giving notice or did you move that?

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

The motion was on notice. I have now moved it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You moved it. Thank you for that.

There's going to be some debate.

I see MP Ste-Marie's hand up.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I believe that a study containing the points raised would allow us to better assess the impact of such a tax measure, which would be useful in analyzing the potential bill. Personally, I would be in favour of the motion at this time, but my position isn't final. I'll listen to what my colleagues have to say on the subject first.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Ste-Marie.

I do see another hand up.

MP Chambers.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

It won't surprise my committee colleagues where I fall.

I'll take the opportunity to mention that the government just released yesterday a new ways and means motion. I think we're supposed to vote on that tomorrow. There's been no briefing offered to parliamentarians about what's changed in that motion, so perhaps those folks in the finance department might like to make themselves available.

I would put this as an adjacent to Mr. Morantz's motion, about just being a little more rigorous around the changes they're doing and making sure we have the right impact statement.

When the government introduces one ways and means motion in June or late May, and then another one on the same issue without the final draft of legislation but doesn't offer a briefing to parliamentarians about what's changed in that motion.... I think it would just be good practice to offer that to parliamentarians, so they know what's changing and what we're voting on in less than 24 hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Chambers.

I do see that MP Ste-Marie's hand is up, and then we have MP Davies after that.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to respond to Mr. Chambers.

After seeing the new notice of ways and means, I contacted Ms. Bendayan and the team at the Department of Finance, and I was given an overview of the changes. These people have also made themselves available to answer my questions. In contacting them, I got answers to my questions, and I thank them for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

MP Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Ste-Marie took one of my points. I did the same thing. When I saw the ways and means motion, I reached out and got an explanation as well, which I think is open to all parliamentarians.

What I would like, though, is for the motion that was just moved by Mr. Morantz to be provided to us in writing. It's a pretty detailed—

[A voice]

It's in the notes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I know it's in the notes, but I don't have it in front of me right now. It's hard to debate the motion. It's multi-faceted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'll ask the clerk to distribute it to everybody, please.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Typically, when a motion is moved, there are copies distributed to everybody in both official languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Members do want it, so I think it should be distributed.

Clerk, if you can also distribute it to all members electronically.... They may not have it in front of them.

I see PS Bendayan, although MP Davies still has the floor.

MP Davies, do you have anything else?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

No. I'm going to take a few minutes to read the motion before I speak to it.

The other thing is that I'm wondering whether, with just 10 minutes left, we should relieve the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I agree.

We're going to allow the witnesses to leave because we're not going to go much past 5:30 here. We'll release the witnesses.

We're just going to suspend for a few minutes so that MP Davies and others can take a look at this.

Go ahead, PS Bendayan.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you. I would like the opportunity to speak, Mr. Chair.

Once again, we see the Conservative motion on capital gains being interrupted by the Conservatives. It's unfortunate because there are several Conservatives, as well as other witnesses, here to provide interesting testimony.

Mr. Chair, given that a member of this committee, Mr. Davies, has requested time to review the motion—the motion is quite detailed—I would suggest that we hold a committee meeting to discuss committee business. In that meeting, we can talk about all of the motions that are before us and see where the committee would like to go for the remainder of the fall session.

Given that there are several other studies that have been proposed, that have been on the books for quite some time and that, I think, members would like to get to, and considering that we've already studied several Conservative motions at the finance committee, I would suggest that we proceed in that way.

With respect to the motion that is currently on the floor of your meeting, Mr. Chair, I move to adjourn debate.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're adjourned on that.

Because we still have all of the witnesses—and maybe I spoke too soon—we will continue with the witnesses again.

We have about a minute left, I think, for the Conservatives.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I have a point of order.

Did we lose any witnesses when you excused them? I see Mr. Moody. I don't see Mr. Lewis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I don't think so. I think everybody is with us.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Okay.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Mr. Chair, it's very disappointing to see the Liberals and the NDP—I guess the coalition is still alive and well—voting together to block a very simple motion that would ask the Department of Finance to tell us what the economic impact is of the increase in the inclusion rate. It's really unfortunate that they want to keep this information from Canadians. However, Conservatives will make sure that Canadians get the information.

I'm glad Mr. Giroux was here to hear the motion because I think it will give him a lot of great ideas as to what he can study as he's putting it forward. I'll make sure that Mr. Giroux gets a copy of the motion because, if the Department of Finance won't provide information or feedback on the motion, I know that the PBO certainly will. It will be unfortunate that the department doesn't have its own data to back up or dispute Mr. Giroux's findings, which we'll have to take as correct.

With that, Mr Chair, I will cede the mic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Morantz.

I will go now to MP Sorbara, please.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Are we going back to our witnesses now?