Finance Committee on Oct. 1st, 2024

[Bushra Asghar]

Yes, absolutely.

In some of the conversations that we've been having with a lot of the ministries and policy directors of the targeted ministries of this campaign, we want to look at the shortcomings of existing programs and how to expand them, but, in essence, really it's the program that we envision.

The only existing program that's like it that exists inside of the government is the military. If you think about a national paid job training program that's turning no one away right now, that is the military, which tells young people that, if they want in, then there is a space for them.

That's really how we are positioning the youth climate corps, but as one that focuses on climate adaptation and mitigation work because we see the threat that our generation faces.

In terms of Newfoundland specifically, I think what you said is exactly right. All of the issues that we're facing as youth, youth in the Atlantic region are facing them triply as hard whether that's leaving their provinces to find work or just general skyrocketing rents with wages just not lining up. It's going to take a whole-of-government approach to create this model and program, and, yes, really looking at the military as one possible option of what this grand undertaking could look like, which turns no one away.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm going to switch, actually, if I could, to you, Mr. Wood.

My father was a truck driver, and I know first-hand how hard he worked so I absolutely support our unsung heroes who move supplies across this country.

It's a very sad anniversary that just passed. A significant hurricane hit my province, and the most severe damage was in the area where goods and services enter by trucks. It certainly significantly impacted our supply chain, and, of course, looking at what's happening along the northeastern U.S. is, again, very shocking.

My question is around the pollution pricing and, from my perspective, why it's so important that we very quickly move on climate mitigation. Are you able to share if you're capturing the very real costs to the industry from these very extreme weather systems? Of course we know they're happening more in shorter periods of time and it's more severe. Do you have any costing on that and what that means for the industry?

[Geoffrey Wood]

I don't have anything specific, but as a case-by-case basis comes along, we would look at those numbers and determine if transit times are increased or a whole host of factors. We don't have anything specific per se to your situation, but we are certainly happy to look at it on a case-by-case basis as that comes up and as needed if that would be the wish of the committee.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Thompson.

Witnesses and members, we are moving into our third round of questions. This will be our final round.

We're starting with MP Morantz, for five minutes, please.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Wood, you had said that, based on the current level of the carbon tax, it was costing $15,000 to $20,000 on a per-truck basis. You confirmed that with my colleague, Mr. Chambers.

The carbon tax is set to go to 61¢ a litre. At that level in 2030, do you know what the cost per truck would be?

[Geoffrey Wood]

I'm sorry. I don't have those specifics, but certainly I can take that back and get you some math on that.

I think we did calculate that, currently in 2024, it's adding $2 billion a year to the total. By 2030, I think our estimates were up to about $4 billion annually. Again, the math would be pretty simple to do. I just don't have it at my fingertips.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Would it be safe to say that, if it's $15,000 to $20,000 a truck at $2 billion, at $30,000 to $40,000 a truck it would be $4 billion?

[Geoffrey Wood]

It could be, sir. Again, I'd like to take that back and really have a little bit of a closer look at the numbers.

It's significant, though.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

That's fair enough.

What does this do to Canada's competitive standing with trucking companies in the United States?

Does it make us less competitive when customers are looking for companies to ship their goods?

[Geoffrey Wood]

The carbon tax applies domestically, so for the north-south as we'll call it, the Canada-U.S. stuff really isn't affected. It's really the mileage that's travelled domestically.

To your point about competitiveness, it certainly makes the supply chain in Canada less competitive. If we're competing, for instance, with the United States and you're investing in developing manufacturing businesses or whatever, and it ends up getting shipped by truck in the purely Canadian context, it's certainly at a disadvantage. The costs are exponential.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

You had touched on, with Mr. Chambers, this effect of increased costs driving customers to use more of the Driver Inc. model of companies.

Did I have that correct?

[Geoffrey Wood]

That's certainly going to be a factor.

In the supply chain, certainly for folks who are tasked with managing their supply chains or what we call their traffic departments, their goal is to get the lowest cost offerings. A lot of the time, they may be aware that the lowest cost offerings are on the backs of drivers who don't have workers' rights, etc., or companies that are unscrupulous.

It could be a whole host of factors. Now that you and your colleagues have brought it up, it's certainly something that we're going to want to look at and see if the tax is exacerbating the problem.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Have you noticed any reduction in the volume of freight in the industry?

[Geoffrey Wood]

We're having a lot of challenges right now. It's not a good situation. Freight volumes are way down.

Fortunately, I'm surrounded by a great team here, and we work for a number of fantastic folks who are on the front lines of this. Things are dire right now. There are too many trucks and not enough freight. There are a lot of challenges, as folks will tell you, with rate pressure.

To your point about the supply chain looking for further cost reductions, it is a challenge. It's exacerbated by the fact that approximately 30% of the business or the industry—and let's be frank here—is in the underground economy or in the full grip of Driver Inc. If you're a legitimate operator, you're having a really hard time.

It's hard to truck the right way now, as we say. We need help. We need ESDC to step up. We certainly need CRA to step up. We need the reinstatement of the T4A, which is the paper trail between two contractors. There's been a moratorium for a long time.

We need help. With the pre-budget study...and to everybody on the line here on the government side or amongst the government, certainly we're having some challenges. We've clearly outlined what the challenges are. We've just seen a lot of non-action.

For folks who want to run their businesses legally and compliantly, we can't figure out why the laws aren't being enforced, particularly by those two organizations. We can't figure it out.

Thank you.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I think I've timed out. Thank you for your testimony.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Morantz.

Now it's MP Baker for the next five minutes.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today. I'm grateful for their testimony.

I have some questions for a few witnesses. I'll try to ask them quickly. However, I apologize in advance if I don't have time to ask everyone questions.

I'll start with the Réseau FADOQ representatives.

Thank you for being here today. I'm keen to hear your testimony and your thoughts, because you represent many seniors.

My constituency of Etobicoke Centre, a suburb of Toronto, is home to one of the highest percentages of seniors in the province and the country. I meet with these seniors every month to discuss their challenges. Since my arrival in the provincial government, and now the federal government, dental care has been one of their top concerns. Not only does it significantly affect people's health, it's also costly and can take up a large part of their disposable income.

I think that approximately one million seniors across the country have enrolled in the dental care program. About nine million people are expected to sign up.

Can you talk about the program's impact on the people whom you represent?

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman]

We hear about this program regularly. Seniors have a hard time getting an appointment, since dentists' appointment bookings are full.

Seniors who have started getting dental care report that it's quite expensive. They're wondering about the rationale behind the program. Some costs aren't covered. I was shocked to learn that a woman received notice that she could change her upper dentures, but not her lower ones. That's where things stand right now. Not all seniors are happy with the program.

[Philippe Poirier-Monette]

When the program was introduced, the professionals had to register with the Canadian dental care plan. The situation has improved, since they no longer need to do so and they can still submit claims. In my opinion, this has helped the program move forward.

However, as Ms. Tassé‑Goodman said, some costs and treatments aren't covered. Some people are ineligible and feel that they should qualify. Ultimately, they aren't eligible, because they purchase their own dental insurance, for example. As a result, a number of issues must be addressed.

In Quebec, we have concerns about the transfer of the program. If this program is transferred, we hope to see improvements. We're also keeping a close eye on the development of the Canadian dental care plan.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I understand that some people aren't covered for the reasons that you brought up. Where I come from, the portion of costs covered has made a big difference for seniors. Isn't that the case for Quebec seniors?

[Philippe Poirier-Monette]

That isn't what they say. I think that the people accepted into the program are benefiting from it, and that's good. We know that dental care factors into health and that good dental health factors into socialization. For the eligible people, the program is beneficial. We've made that clear from the start. We support the Canadian dental care plan. However, during its implementation, certain issues arose regarding the professionals who had to register for the program. We know that some dental associations feel that not enough costs are covered by the program. Many issues remain a concern, but it's ultimately a positive step.

The people who are eligible certainly reap the benefits.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Baker.

Now we'll go to MP Ste-Marie, please.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Tassé‑Goodman, the government is currently assessing whether to give a royal recommendation to Bill C‑319, which would increase old age security by 10% for people aged 65 to 74.

What arguments would you like to put forward to convince the government to give this royal recommendation?