Finance Committee on Oct. 1st, 2024

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

With pleasure.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

We agree. Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I welcome all the witnesses. I thank them for being here and for the very useful amount of information they are giving us. Unfortunately, time being limited, I will not be able to ask them all the questions I would have liked.

I will start with questions for Réseau FADOQ. Ms. Tassé‑Goodman, you just reminded us that seniors living with an annual income of $22,000 find themselves below the poverty line. In 1970, the Old Age Security pension represented 20% of the average industrial wage. Today, it represents only 12%. One after the other, governments stopped pegging the pension to the level it should have been indexed. Furthermore, the economics reporter, Gérald Fillion, reminded us some time ago that Canada is at the back of the pack among industrialized countries in terms of rate of income replacement, meaning the relationship between income when one is on the labour market and when one is retired.

What are your comments on the subject?

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman]

Let’s take the case of people who have to retire at 60 years old. If they start collecting from the Quebec pension plan at that age, they are penalized. Furthermore, some benefits and tax credits are available at 65 years old, and others at 70 years old. It reduces seniors’ quality of life.

That said, when it comes to housing, we know it is very expensive. As I said to your colleague, seniors tell us they are unable to pay all their rent at the end of the month. They keep part of it—$200, for example—to pay for their groceries. Then they tell their landlord they will pay the rest next month. It has a domino effect.

Seniors also tell us about how hard it is for them to pay for their medication, buy their glasses and go to the dentist. Those services are not free.

The 10% increase for Old Age Security represents about $70 a month. If seniors aged 65 to 74 years old could access that amount, it would be highly appreciated.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you. It’s unbelievable to know that seniors have to make those kinds of sacrifices. It’s heartbreaking, really.

You also requested an increase for Guaranteed Income Supplement benefits for seniors with the fewest resources.

Could you give us some details? What increase are you suggesting for the Guaranteed Income Supplement?

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman]

We are asking for a $500 increase to the Guaranteed Income Supplement.

I will ask my colleague to elaborate.

[Philippe Poirier-Monette, Special Advisor, Government Relations, Réseau FADOQ]

Recall that during the 2021 election campaign, the government promised a $500 increase for people living alone, and $750 for couples. That is the absolute minimum.

I’d like to come back to indexing the Old Age Security pension, which you mentioned. The problem is that indexation is based on the Consumer Price Index, whereas average wage growth is a percentage point higher. Generally speaking, this means federal benefits will play a less important role in the income replacement rate for retirements in the future. That’s where the problem lies.

As an example, the Canada Pension Plan and the Quebec Pension Plan change based on wages, because they depend on contributions. Maximum pensionable earnings change based on average wage growth. To put it simply, the average wage replacement rate by Old Age Security will be much lower in 2065 than it is currently.

Our ask is not complicated. We ask that indexation of Old Age Security also take wage growth into account. At least people wouldn’t become impoverished. That’s the foundation of retirement in Canada.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Pension payments, as varied as they are, should therefore be indexed to the average wage. That was originally the case for Old Age Security. The government wanted to save money on the backs of seniors and retirees. However, you are saying that if we maintain the current calculation method, the gap between the Old Age Security pension and rate of replacement will increase. If nothing is done now, today’s youth will have even less money when they retire. That supports your request to index the pension to average wages and not the Consumer Price Index, as well as applying the increase as of 65 years old.

[Philippe Poirier-Monette]

Exactly.

Furthermore, you must remember that the Canada Pension Plan and the Quebec Pension Plan were topped up. They went from a 25% replacement rate to about 33%. That is a good thing, but the problem is that people contribute more. They therefore earn less on their paycheque. Now, because of the fact that Old Age Security is indexed to the Consumer Price Index, the federal government’s share of benefits for the income replacement rate is going down. Generally speaking, future workers will therefore contribute more to have basically the same income replacement rate. That means a replacement rate of about 40% for both payments combined.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

We'll now go to MP Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Klein and Ms. Asghar, I'd like to start with you.

The youth climate corps is an intriguing idea. Could you explain to us, briefly, how that differs from youth employment programs or training programs that currently exist?

[Bushra Asghar]

The biggest difference is that we are proposing a two-year-long program. We're not just teaching young people how to install a solar panel. Many current government programs are four months long or maybe a year long, but they are not as substantial as what we are proposing, which would be two years in length.

It would also be paid at a thriving decent wage...as well as the linkage to a long-term career pathway for young people. That is what's distinguishing us from what currently exists in terms of the basket of different measures for youth.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

What do you see as the key steps involved in implementing the YCC? Can you outline how the $1-billion-per-year investment should be allocated?

[Seth Klein]

Our hope is that we could get a program stood up fairly quickly and that would begin with an initial investment in the budget.

There's a logic to this program being cost shared with provincial governments or territorial governments. I think there's a reasonable expectation that a number of provincial governments would be keen to cost match with the federal government.

I'm in British Columbia. I think the B.C. government might well be interested in that, as well as the Manitoba government, very possibly the Quebec government and the P.E.I. government. I'm thinking about governments with very active climate plans. I think there's a place here for partnership with post-secondary institutes and with the labour movement for the apprenticeship piece of this.

You can sort of see a trajectory, looking south of the border. It was a year ago in September that the Biden administration announced an American Climate Corps. It invited input from young people and community organizations about the nature of what those jobs could be. It rolled out the program early this calendar year. The first 10,000 young people were employed this past summer.

It can happen when the will is there. It can happen very quickly.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I read recently that the true youth unemployment rate is actually quite disturbingly high—somewhere approaching 15% or 16%. A lot of young people are despondent not only about their economic future, but about the future of the planet.

What do you see as the anticipated economic benefits of the YCC for Canadian youth and Canadian society?

[Seth Klein]

I can take a first stab at that if you would like. We're not in the same place, so it's not clear which of us should answer.

I think there would be a huge payback. First of all, just to take the example of apprenticeships, we know that when somebody has apprenticeship training, their income is about $15,000 to $16,000 higher than if they just have a high school education. You can anticipate rolling benefits in terms of earnings and in terms of tax returns back to the federal government.

Bushra spoke about the fact that many industries are wrestling with skill shortages. There are, in fact, climate infrastructure projects across the country that are looking for funding particularly to train up enough people. We've partnered with Sacred Earth Solar in this campaign and with some indigenous groups. There are all kinds of projects that could be scaled up at a much faster rate with sufficient funding for the training.

There are those clear economic benefits, but as you also alluded to, there are mental health benefits. We know from research from about a year ago, from Lakehead University's survey of 1,000 young people across the country, that close to 80% of those young people report that climate change impacts their mental health. For about a third of them, it gives them pause about considering having families.

There's something in this call, I think, beyond the economic benefits and beyond the training and career path. It's this invitation to find a common sense of purpose in doing something that actually meets this moment.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to try to squeeze in a quick question for Mr. Cochrane.

In the CLC's pre-budget submission, you point out that Canada's social housing currently makes up only 3.5% of Canada's housing stock and that's about half the OECD average of 7.1%. Can you outline why Canada has fallen so far behind the OECD peers with respect to non-market housing stock?

What impact might doubling Canada's percentage of non-market housing have on housing prices and affordability across the country?

[Dr. D.T. Cochrane]

The government withdrew from the housing provision role that it had previously to a much bigger degree than its international peers. That resulted in much less of this very important part of the housing market.

It doesn't have to be a massive piece to reduce price pressures by a large degree because people who now have access to this housing aren't participating in the the process of bidding up housing in the market. That's going to pull down prices for rentals and houses more generally, as part of a general increase of supply.

We need to make sure that everyone has access to housing. More social housing will improve that access and will help reduce prices across the entire housing market.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm sorry, MP Davies. We've reached the time. Really, we're well over. There will be an opportunity in the second round, and that's what we're starting right now.

Times are a little bit different for the parties. We're starting with MP Morantz for five minutes, please.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Robertson, I'm going to start with you.

In your first recommendation, you talk about federal grant programs and that you want to ensure that those projects will align with the Canadian anti-racism strategy, “Changing Systems, Transforming Lives”. In the commentary around that recommendation, you specifically note the Laith Marouf scandal, which was a terrible scandal where someone who clearly expressed anti-Semitic and hateful views towards Jews received federal money.

When I read this, it reminded me of another scandal that unfolded over the summer, which was the appointment back in May or June by Minister Virani of Mr. Dattani to head the Canadian Human Rights Commission. Mr. Dattani was appointed and then resigned, and it was a real mess for the government. It got me thinking whether or not you think that this recommendation—the application of Canada's anti-racism strategy—should also be applied to the way appointments are conducted. I note, in fact, that in your public comments you said, “The Dattani saga highlights critical flaws in the Government's process for vetting candidates.... We call for a thorough investigation to ensure such oversights are prevented in the future.”

I wonder if you could comment on that or whether you have other ideas as to how the vetting of appointments, particularly with something so critical as the Canadian Human Rights Commission, could be conducted properly so that Canadians can have confidence in the impartiality of the people who are appointed to such important positions.

[Richard Robertson]

Absolutely. The implementation of Canada's anti-racism strategy is absolutely critical to fighting all forms of racism and hatred in Canada, including anti-Semitism. Whether we're applying the anti-racism strategy towards our federal granting apparatuses or whether we're applying it towards federal appointments, these are measures that should be adopted and in place to ensure that, in all government action, a whole-of-government approach to the implementation of the anti-racism strategy is being implemented.

We absolutely believe that the adoption of a recommendation that would have our federal granting apparatuses align with the anti-racism strategy is just a first step. To see that then utilized to ensure that all government appointments are in line with the strategy is a logical next step.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

On to another topic, I know that B'nai Brith put out a statement back in the spring that they were very concerned that the federal government had chosen to reinstate funding for UNRWA. The record of UNRWA is pretty clear. For years we've known that they have anti-Semitic school materials, where they teach children to hate Israel and to hate Jews. They show them maps without Israel even being on the map. Those reports were put forward by IMPACT-se and have been widely reviewed. Then revelations came out about employees of UNRWA who participated in the October 7 massacres.

Most recently, in the counterattack of Israel in Lebanon, a fellow named Fatah Sharif Abu al Amin, a senior Hamas leader in Lebanon, was killed, but the revelation came out that he was also the head of the UNRWA teachers union, which is not a small, low-level position.

Are you even more concerned than you were in the spring that the Canadian government should not be funding UNRWA?

[Richard Robertson]

Absolutely. The evidence is abundant and is irrefutable. UNRWA was complicit in the October 7 attacks led by Hamas, and UNRWA has also been complicit in indoctrinating generations of Palestinian children to hate and incite against the Israeli state. The existence of UNRWA as a result is contrary to a two-state solution, and UNRWA should not be utilized as the vehicle through which Canada administers aid to the Palestinian people.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Morantz.

Now it's over to MP Sorbara for five minutes.