Evidence of meeting #158 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was stores.
A video is available from Parliament.
President, Canadian Teachers' Federation
I think national pharmacare is amazing. Especially for women's health care, it's so important.
I was really happy to hear that Manitoba put out an announcement very recently saying that birth control was going to be free, and it should be free. That, I think, is an amazing step forward. It's good for everybody. It's good for all families and everybody.
Liberal
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Mr. Cloutier or Mr. Lavigne.
If you want, I will let you tell us about the fourth pillar, which deals with investments and funding programs. This has always paid off well for the government: Every dollar invested in the industry has generated much more.
Otherwise, you might have a closing statement to give us.
Once again, thank you for telling us about your policy.
Quebec Director, Unifor
Having an investment policy, support for investment and the possibility of accessing funding quickly makes obvious sense.
I am going to ask Simon to add to my answer, but there is one thing I would like to say in closing. We do not consider it to be reasonable for Canadian companies that are trying to sell aircraft elsewhere in the world not to be even considered by the Canadian government. Supporting the industry also means promoting it when what it does is good.
Mr. Lavigne, do you want to add something?
National Representative, Research Department, Unifor
Yes, thanks.
According to an analysis produced by the Institut du Québec, and more specifically by Alain Dubuc at HEC Montréal, approximately $6.75 billion has been invested by the federal government in the aerospace sector in Canada since 1956. I want to point out that this was not in the form of gifts; in fact, it was mainly by repayable loans.
Regarding annual funding in the last 15 years, the federal government allocates approximately $150 million in repayable loans. Compared to the contributions paid to other sectors of the economy, which deserve to be funded, of course, but which may not be strategic in the way that aerospace is, $150 million per year in repayable loans is not a huge thing. In fact, it is a somewhat small amount, and this attests to the government's limited ambition in this area.
What we are saying is that there has to be the will to support the sector. The government has a variety of tools at its disposal, including, obviously, tax credits. I will not start listing all the tools, but let us say they range from tax credits to repayable loans for starting up new aircraft families, and include equity participation.
I will give you a recent example. In Canada, we have the third-largest manufacturer of landing gear in the world, but it has been bought out by an American company, by an investment fund, which probably intends to do a quick sale of the company. Why? Because the company could not find the capital it needed on the public markets. Could the government have ensured the long-term development of this company, which was a Canadian and Quebec company, and kept it in Quebec and Canada, under a strategy and consultation about how to use the funding and the investments? I think this is something we need to look into.
So there is a set of potential measures, ranging from tax credits to repayable loans, and including equity participation. We do not want to nationalize the economy, but in some cases, given the market failures and long cycles that characterize the aerospace industry, we believe that we cannot simply leave it up to market forces. We need a strategic intervention by the government.
At present, there is $150 million in funding a year, on average, and that is insufficient. The goal is not simply to increase that amount again, it is also to adopt a strategic framework that will enable us to define investments and measures and direct them where they will have the greatest impact and bring about the most tangible benefits. This is one of the objectives of the last pillar of our policy.
Liberal
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Hatch, in your pre-budget submission, you said this:
The credit union sector is in the midst of a significant process of consolidation, as more and more credit unions come together to achieve the scale that will be needed in future years to meet the needs of members, invest in technology, and be compliant with the many regulations handed down from both levels of government.
Can you explain to us how the consolidation of credit unions might impact competition within the financial sector? What are the potential benefits and drawbacks?
Vice President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
It will increase competition. It will allow us to continue to provide, as I had said earlier, the only real competition that exists for the large banks. You know, there's a long tail of fairly small credit unions that still exist in Canada and they will continue to exist well into the future.
The reality of the sector is that consolidation continues apace. What used to be a couple thousand institutions only a couple of decades ago now numbers fewer than 200. The majority of the assets of the sector are concentrated in the top 10% of that number. We have consolidation and concentration taking place at the top end of the sector as institutions grow organically, and also through consolidation and mergers to be able to compete. Because the costs of technology and regulation are increasing, you need a certain level of scale to be able to do that.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
You made a reference to the barriers to the combination of federal credit unions with provincial credit unions.
Can you briefly outline what those barriers are?
Vice President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
It's never really been contemplated, frankly. I mean, there are only a very small number of federal credit unions—there are three or four—because the process is so brutal, frankly. It takes forever and it costs millions of dollars. It's just not realistic for most. That's why we do need a streamlined version of that.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Just to be clear, banks can operate nationally, but credit unions cannot.
Vice President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
That's correct, unless you're federally regulated. There are a handful, but it hasn't really caught fire because it's so hard and time consuming to go through that process.
Now there is one example of a federal credit union in Saskatchewan seeking to merge with a provincially regulated credit union in Alberta, so I guess we'll see. There will be lots of interesting processes that they're going to have to go through. It hasn't ever happened; it has not been contemplated by the regulation at either level of government.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Should credit unions be allowed to operate nationally, just as a matter of—
Vice President, Government Relations, Canadian Credit Union Association
They are. They just have to choose to “go federal”, in the vernacular, which means choosing to be regulated by OSFI as opposed to the provincial regulator. It's not an overnight process; it's anything but. It takes years and it's just way too difficult.
It needs to be made easier so that more institutions can go down that road.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
As is my custom here in pre-budget consultations, I'll give all the witnesses fair warning that at the end of this round, I will ask you if you have any recommendations for the government that don't cost any money.
You can park that and as I continue my questioning, you can think about it. I'll come to each of you by the end of the round.
Mr. Cloutier, thank you for being here. Welcome.
I follow a little bit about the aerospace sector. In particular, some of the manufacturers have said that they're concerned about a loss of GDP in the sector through fewer sales, which will result in fewer workers, as a result of the luxury tax.
I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on that.
Quebec Director, Unifor
When this tax was brought in, we in Quebec took a favourable view of it. We did not think it would have the effect of reducing the number of orders or jobs. It does not seem that it will be a problem for us.
I invite my colleague to add to my answer.
National Representative, Research Department, Unifor
I do not have the figures in front of me, but I would like to point out that the revenue from that tax, for the aerospace industry, has maybe not been as much as the governments' projections. The effect does not seem to have been as strong as anticipated.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Thank you very much. I appreciate your candour.
That is correct. I think only there were about 400 aircraft that were sold last year that the tax applied to, which is over $100,000. It's also possible they might not be selling more aircraft because of the tax. We'll wait to see as more results come in.
Ms. Silas, I agree that agency nursing is a huge problem that ought to be addressed by relevant provincial governments.
I just want to make sure I get this correct. My understanding is that within a hospital environment or some other health care environment, you could have working on the same shift one of your member nurses and an agency nurse. They are making different wages. One gets to pick their shifts; the other doesn't. One contributes to the pension plan; the other doesn't and therefore the hourly rate they get is more in some circumstances.
Do I understand that right that you have a divergence of experience within the same health care environment?
President, Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions
Yes, some are paid double or triple what the permanent employees are paid. The only province that is really working on it is your colleague next door, Manitoba, where they're creating their own public casual workforce.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Thank you. Well, listen, you won't have any concerns from me if you poke more on that issue across the province. There's only one taxpayer, and I think it would just make economic sense. It makes more sense to actually allow the nurse, who doesn't have as much flexibility on shift choice, to get paid more, I would think. We seem to have this perverse incentive system that's grown as a result, partially I'm sure, of COVID and the availability of people. Anyway, you have my support.
