Evidence of meeting #170 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was come.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
We're back.
I have MP Dzerowicz, then MP Hallan and MP Ste-Marie after that.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Mr. Chair, on December 5, 2024, this committee received a Standing Order 106(4) request for an emergency meeting to discuss the possibility of inviting the Minister of Finance to appear at committee. The chair decided to accommodate the request using an existing in camera meeting of the committee, as opposed to requesting resources for an additional meeting. The clerk of the committee published a notice of meeting on December 6, 2024, outlining the agenda for the meeting, including that it was in camera.
The honourable member for Calgary Forest Lawn, Mr. Hallan, then posted on social media platform X, formerly known as Twitter, on December 9, 2024, an altered notice of meeting for the December 10, 2024, meeting, incorrectly showing the text “secret meeting” within the agenda. I have a printed copy of the post that I will share with the chair for his information.
House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, specifically lists “deliberately publishing a false or misleading report of the proceedings of the House or a committee” as a form of contempt of Parliament. I would argue that a notice of meeting published by the clerk of the committee is a report of the proceedings of Parliament. It is exceptionally inappropriate for anyone, especially an honourable member of this place, to deliberately doctor a publication of Parliament to fit a political agenda and to utilize it in the Conservative Party's continued campaign of disinformation to Canadians.
I believe that this constitutes a matter of privilege and should be reported to the House, as this matter should be further investigated. I await your decision on the matter, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That would be helpful, MP Dzerowicz. Thank you.
Does anybody else want to speak to this? No.
I'm going to suspend. I have to speak to the clerk about this.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
We are back.
After some discussions with the clerk and understanding what is in the green book, it is a breach of privilege. That is my ruling. Now I'm looking to members for what you would like to do with this.
I have MP Kelly.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Forgive me. I didn't bring my green book. I don't have one handy, but a question of privilege has to be made in the chamber. You cannot rule on a question of privilege.
A member can raise a question at the earliest opportunity in the House, and it would be for the Speaker to find whether or not the item raised is in fact a prima facie breach of privilege. Then the appropriate motion, if the Speaker has so ruled, could be made. It is not for a committee to debate a question of privilege or for a committee chair to make a finding of a violation of privilege.
Bloc
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I am also without my green book, but by my memory, I believe it's the case that the chair, when a question of privilege is raised at committee, does not rule on the merits. He just rules on whether it raises a prima facie case of privilege. If that's the case, which I think is your ruling, it then comes back to the committee to decide what to do with it. The technical thing is to send a report to the House, and that's where I think it's dealt with. That's my understanding of the proper procedure.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
That has been my understanding, MP Davies.
We'll just read from the green book.
Thank you, Clerk.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Alexandre Roger
Page 1,060 of Bosc and Gagnon says:
If a member wishes to raise a question of privilege during a committee meeting, or an incident arises in connection with the committee’s proceedings that may constitute a breach of privilege, the committee Chair allows the member to explain the situation. The Chair then determines whether the question raised in fact relates to parliamentary privilege. If the Chair determines that the question does relate to parliamentary privilege, the committee may then consider presenting a report on the question to the House.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
I think that's how MP Davies spelled it out.
That's where we are right now. I'm looking to members.
I have MP Baker.
Liberal
Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
I just want to understand the options. We can write a report to the House. I'd love to know what that involves. If we choose not to do that, what would the alternative be?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
There is no alternative. This would be presented to the House if members so decided. It would just go to the House, and then a member would be able to raise a question of privilege based on the report, if they so decided, in the House.
I have MP Dzerowicz.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
If we follow through on that and write a report based on your ruling, can we then adjourn debate after we decide you will do a report, or do we need to continue debate?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
If the committee decides to do a report, once that decision is made—it's a yes or no—we would move back to our order of business, which is green finance.
Go ahead, MP Dzerowicz.
December 10th, 2024 / 5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
I'm going to be very honest, Mr. Chair, because I don't want in any way not to be dealing with the 106(4) request today. I want to put that out there right now.
The reason I raised this question of privilege is that I thought you were going to say, “I will take it away and then I will come back to you at the next meeting and rule on this particular matter.” That's what I expected you to do. You were highly efficient with our clerk in coming back with a ruling so quickly, but what I don't want to do at this moment is hinder our conversation about the 106(4) request. I just wanted to mention that.
Is there a way—I'm just asking this as a question—for us to adjourn the debate on this right now, shift over to the 106(4) request and then come back to it at the next appropriate moment?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
MP Dzerowicz, yes, it is your privilege to do that. Then you would be able to come back to this.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Then, Mr. Chair, if I could, I would adjourn debate on this for right now, for you to bring this conversation back at a future meeting.
Liberal
