Finance Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We will have a recorded division, Mr. Clerk.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Shall clause 45 carry?

(Clause 45 agreed to on division)

(On clause 46)

Clause 46 has NDP-2.

Mr. Blaikie, please go ahead on your amendment.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

I will move this amendment. I think you'll find that this amendment does not have a reference to the provinces, so perhaps it will be more palatable to certain members of the committee for whom that's a concern.

It simply asks that the federal government, for money that is specifically for the purpose of buying rapid tests, regularly report on the number of tests purchased and how they were distributed. We know that some of this money, in the way that its purpose is characterized under the legislation, will not simply be distributed to provinces and territories.

There are areas where the federal government has some responsibility, within the context of the Canadian Armed Forces or the provision of health services on reserve. There are areas where the federal government will also be making some of these purchases directly. In those cases, as well as in the cases where it's transferring money to provinces and territories for a specific purpose, I think it's reasonable that the federal government would be reporting to the House of Commons on how that money is spent.

As a colleague of mine on the committee rightly pointed out, normally we would interrogate some of this expenditure through the normal estimates process, and instead we are authorizing it through legislation. We're doing that in a context where the Parliamentary Budget Officer has said that the government has been slow to publish its public accounts in the pandemic context. I think that if we're going to have a sense of whether this money is being spent properly in time to be able to raise questions about it and maybe have a positive impact, then there has to be some kind of reporting.

Again, this is why I think it makes sense for us to try to introduce some of that into the legislation that provides authority for the spending. That's why I've suggested this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Blaikie.

I see a couple of hands up. I have MP Beech and MP Ste-Marie.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In general, I'm quite supportive of this amendment. I circulated, or attempted to circulate, what I hope is going to be a friendly amendment, and I'll speak to what that is.

As NDP-2 and NDP-3 are close, I think I referred to Bill C-10 in my subamendment, but I will read this in and hopefully it will be considered a friendly—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm going to interject, MP Beech, just before you start.

I've spoken to the clerk. The French version is not exactly the same as the English version.

I'll look to the legislative clerk. Could you help with where the problem is before you read that in?

[Jacques Maziade, Legislative Clerk]

In what we received, the English version is not the same as the French version. As I understand it, the English version seeks to modify NDP-3—

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Yes. That's the part I'm speaking to. I want to do it to Bill C-8, so it's to NDP-2, actually. They're similar.

[Jacques Maziade]

It's just to NDP-2. That means that the English version is not the correct version.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Yes. That's exactly it.

I can read this in, and I think you'll see that it will be easily fixed.

Can I proceed, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Beech, we only have it circulated in French. To circulate the English version, we would need that change made.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Yes. I'm going to have to read it in, and type and talk at the same time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's right.

Go ahead, MP Beech.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

There are two amendments and I'm hoping that they're both going to be friendly.

The first would be, in the first sentence where it reads, “COVID-19 comes into force and every three months after that”, I would add the words “should any payments be made under the act during that period”. This allows there to be, effectively, a sunset clause so that there's no needless reporting if there are no payments made.

The second part is immediately following this, which reads, “the Minister of Health must prepare a report setting out”. It's a small addition, which is, “the total amount of payments”. The initial motion reads “a report setting out the payments made under the act”, but this clarification would say, “the total amount of payments under the act”. That amendment is for competitive reasons. As we acquire rapid tests, they will be acquired by different companies. Knowing the individual breakdowns of what tests would be acquired at what price will hurt us competitively while negotiating to acquire them. There are some companies that may not wish to participate if their per-unit cost is known.

I'm hoping that this stays in the same intent as the mover's motion, and I'm hoping it can be adopted as a friendly amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Beech.

I am going to look to the legislative clerk for some clarification on what you just entered into the record as your amendment.

[Jacques Maziade]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Beech, I want to make sure that I understand what you want to add to NDP-2. Do you have page 4 of the package of amendments? You said that you want to add some words after the words “COVID-19”, but it is not in NDP-2.

If you refer to page 4 of the package, and if you could read—

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Maybe I could ask this. We are at an hour and a half of a three-hour meeting, so could I ask for the five-minute suspension that we normally have, to have a quick break? I'll draft it appropriately and we can get it circulated. I think that would make it much quicker, and everybody could have a quick washroom break at the same time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's a good idea.

We'll suspend for five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I call the meeting back to order.

Welcome, members. I do want to let members know that I just heard from the interpreters. Could members could keep their phones or devices on “silent”, just because when they “ding”, when they go off, it does affect the interpreters in their work? I'd appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Mr. Beech, you now are going to be moving your subamendment.

Legislative Clerk, will that be the process?

[Jacques Maziade]

Yes, with the copy that we just circulated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

The copy has been circulated to everyone. Hopefully, everybody has the same copy.

Go ahead, MP Beech.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Thank you.

I'm sorry for the delay, but the nice part of this delay is that we were able to make my subamendment even more efficient through some chat with MP Blaikie that happened after we were suspended.

The amendment changes starting with, “the Minister of Health must prepare a report setting out the number of payments made under subsection (1)”. The addition there would be “number of” payments. Immediately following that “made under subsection (1)” is this addition: “should any payments be made under the Act during that period”. This speaks to the two comments that I made prior to the break regarding this amendment, and I'm hoping that these will be taken as friendly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Those changes are acceptable to me, so I'm prepared to accept them if there's no objection from any other committee member to changing the wording of the motion. I'm happy to accept those.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm just looking to see if there's any more discussion.

I have MP Fast.