Finance Committee on March 7th, 2022

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

All right. I'm going to pass my time on to MP Fast, please.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Arcand, I believe you also testified that the Emergencies Act, including the right to freeze accounts, made it easier for you to remove the protest. Is that correct? I'm trying to remember what you said.

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

Yes. It did facilitate.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Facilitate: Is it your testimony that it made it easier for you to—

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

Yes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Okay.

Do you believe it's the function of policing authorities to have their lives made easier or in the first place to conduct themselves and have the powers that reflect due process and the rule of law?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

We apply the law that is offered to us and that we can apply to work towards the achievements we want to achieve.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

My fear was that the effort of the government to try to get the blockades removed in an easier fashion, rather than in a fashion that was appropriate for the circumstances, drove their decision to trigger the Emergencies Act. Yes, you were given additional powers that I believe facilitated your ability to get this done, but your testimony is that there were no efforts made in the lead-up to the triggering of the act that would have applied court orders to perhaps secure the kind of support that police authorities needed.

So you can understand my concern. That's why I asked the question. Was it your concern that your job would be made easier or was it your concern to comply with the rule of law and do it in a way that reflected Canadian standards and Canadian expectations?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

We were offered another tool to apply to facilitate and address the situation. It was the same thing with the Ontario police, who used the Ontario act.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Yes. Was that tool necessary?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

It was. It shows...the economic measures order was necessary and useful.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

All right.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Fast and MP Albas.

We are moving now to the Liberals.

MP Maloney, you're up for five minutes.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To the RCMP and all of the law enforcement community, let me add my thanks to everybody else's. What you did in Ottawa—all of us were there, and we witnessed it—was truly remarkable, and you did it safely.

I'll pick up on something that Mr. Fast was just addressing. My thinking is similar to his, but I come at it from a slightly different perspective. Would you agree with me that the function of the police is to make the community safe, sir?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

It is the primary function.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Right. Those of us who were in Ottawa witnessed a situation where 4,000 or 5,000 people were scared to leave their homes and couldn't go to work for a period of three weeks. I was less concerned about their ability to stop at Denny's in Kingston and more concerned about the people of Ottawa being able to remove themselves from their homes and go about their business.

You started your evidence today by saying that the Emergencies Act measures were welcome, I believe. Could you explain in further detail what you meant by that, sir?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

Again, it's providing law enforcement other tools to address a situation like this and it permits that.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

You felt that you didn't have those tools at your disposal before the invocation of the Emergencies Act. Is that right?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

Specific to the economic measures order, it was useful.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Am I correct in saying, then, that part of the reason you felt that way is that, as you said a moment ago, this was an Ottawa police operation, and until the invocation of the emergency measures act you didn't have the ability to work with all of the law enforcement agencies to resolve this situation peacefully? Is that fair?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

It brought the RCMP into the portrait. Yes.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

I think Mr. Fast also mentioned the fact that nobody had sought a court order prior to the invocation of the act. How long would it take? For each of those 257 accounts that were frozen, if you were to do that by way of court order, each one would require an independent application before the court. Is that correct?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

You are right.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Each one of those could take days to run its course. Isn't that right?

[A/Commr Michel Arcand]

Each case is different, but it could take a long time for the investigation to be built and for the proper affidavit to be brought before the court, yes.