Finance Committee on May 30th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Lawrence.

I see that MP Beech's hand is up.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Yes. It's just to respectfully respond to my colleague.

My initial comment was with regard to CPC-2 and NDP-2, not necessarily CPC-3, although I did comment on that in my remarks as well.

Of course, we're going to get to that after the vote on this, but I hear what you're saying. I think my position's the same, though.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Is there any further debate?

Go ahead, MP Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think one of the big challenges we have here is that, again, the government has moved first with its own bill without properly consulting on and trying to really capture the spirit of the senator's bill. That's the challenge here.

The government is again trying to look like it is doing something in alignment with a very popular initiative, and the reason why it's popular is that charities want to do good work. They want to be able to deliver services in a more efficient and accountable manner, but the problem is that, if you're spending all your time dealing with red tape and doing it in a prescriptive approach, you aren't able to help people who are in need, when they need it.

I would encourage all members to support this particular change. MP Lawrence, to his credit, has met with the charitable sector multiple times outside of the committee and did an admirable job of raising some of the concerns of the charitable sector in regard to the original drafting of Bill C-19. It did not capture the spirit of the senator's bill.

I'd suggest that rather than playing catch-up, we instead just deliver exactly what the charitable sector is wanting, which is the senator's bill in this BIA.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Albas.

Members, shall CPC-2 carry?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I'd like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Members, we're moving to the next amendment.

I'm looking for hands on this. Is there any discussion?

Shall Bloc-1 carry?

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I, too, would ask that the vote be called.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

If Bloc-1 is adopted, NDP-2 cannot be moved, as they amend the same line.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we're going to NDP-2 and MP Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

It's very much in the spirit of what's already been said. I think we have some language here that we've likewise run by folks in the industry and by the senator who's sponsoring Bill S-216, Senator Omidvar. I'd like to put that language to the committee now in the hopes that we may be able to pass some wording that I do think strikes a good balance between the need for accountability on the one hand and the need for more flexibility than the charitable sector has enjoyed in the past.

It's in that spirit that I present this amendment, and I look forward to the vote.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Blaikie.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 16 as amended agreed to on division)

There are no amendments, members, submitted to clauses 17 to 20. Clauses 17 to 20 are all in part 1 of the bill.

Do we have unanimous consent to group those together?

[An hon. member]

Yes, but only on division.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, for my own clarification, we voted on amendment NDP-2. Did everybody just agree to accept either CPC-4 or one of the other clauses? I missed it because I wasn't in the room.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

You're in the wrong clause, Terry. We're coming to that still.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's right.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

I apologize. Thank you, Daniel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We voted on NDP-2. We voted on clause 16 as amended. It was carried.

Now, members, what I was bringing forward, as I said, was that there were no amendments submitted to clauses 17 to 20.

(Clauses 17 to 20 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 21)

There was an amendment by the Conservatives. I note here, members, that if CPC-3 is adopted, Bloc-2 cannot be moved as they are identical.

MP Lawrence, would you like to speak to and/or move your amendment?

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to move my amendment.

By way of explanation, this will ensure that the Income Tax Act does not prohibit donors from giving to support programs of registered charities where the registered charity satisfies the “own activity” test or makes a qualifying disbursement. In other words, where a gift is made within a subset of charitable activities, that won't be prohibited by the BIA.

As I said earlier, this could cause substantial issues and challenges for individuals and charities that want to give money within a charitable purpose. With this legislation, you couldn't direct it to non-charitable purposes, so it will stay within the mandate. But, for example, as I said, if in fact you wanted to donate to, within a subset, say, something benefiting Ukrainian orphans, this legislation could arguably put that offside, which would create challenges. It's a relatively simple, minor amendment that will clarify the legislation and make life easier for charities.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Lawrence.

I see MP Ste-Marie's hand up. Again, I'll make the note that if CPC-3 is adopted or defeated, Bloc-2 cannot be moved as they are identical.

MP Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The second Bloc Québécois amendment, BQ‑2, is identical to this one, so I will obviously be voting in favour of CPC‑3. Mr. Lawrence did a good job of explaining why it's important to support the amendment.

As you said, Mr. Chair, CPC‑3 was received first, so it takes precedence.

I have to admit, Mr. Lawrence is much quicker on the draw than I am. He could be Buzz Lightyear.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

I have MP Beech.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My apologies to the members for getting lost in the clauses earlier. I thought the chair was rushing ahead.

I'm standing by my previous comments on this and my concerns around technical issues. I'll be voting against CPC-3, but I am looking forward to CPC-4.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Beech.

No, I was not looking to move quickly. I know members like to move quickly on their amendments, but they're in the order in which they come in. I was not trying to do that.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to defend your honour here. You were running a tight ship, and unfortunately the parliamentary secretary must have been distracted on Twitter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

All right. Thank you.

Shall amendment CPC-3 carry?