Finance Committee on Oct. 5th, 2022

[Beth Potter]

I don't have that information. I have not been able to confirm that.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

What was allocated for the 2022 budget for tourism?

[Beth Potter]

There wasn't anything allocated to tourism for 2022, because the $500 million for the tourism relief fund was a two-year program.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

It was a two-year program. Just to let people know, was tourism a $105-billion industry prepandemic?

[Beth Potter]

Yes.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Where are you sitting now?

[Beth Potter]

By the end of December of this year we should be at $80 billion.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

So you're not there yet.

[Beth Potter]

No.

Domestic tourism is better than international, but we're still down by 16% for domestic tourism and by 53% for international visitation. If you put the two of them together, we're down by 24% overall.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Can you clarify again one of the things you mentioned earlier in this committee? How many files does tourism intersect with?

[Beth Potter]

Twenty-four.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Twenty-four.

You answered my colleague's question about what could be efficient. I think what's challenging about tourism, in my observations, is how to actually quantify the economic and mental health impact of what it provides for our country.

This week I met with the Canadian Council of Snowmobile Organizations. This is a $9-billion industry in Canada, $3 billion in Ontario. How do you actually quantify how much they help a community when they come into that community? There's the building of the snowmobile, the parts for the snowmobile and the equipment needed for the snowmobile. Then they go for a snowmobile ride. They stop at a restaurant. They stop at a store. They stop at a convenience store or they get gas. All of that really impacts tourism.

The other aspect of it is the mental health component of it, which we've seen is a massive component when we're looking at our well-being and what we've seen in the last two years. So many people look at travelling through the eyes of the tourist, and look at it as an opportunity of privilege, rather than through the eyes of the business owner who operates a tourism business. Those are the people who hold our economy together.

If you had an ask of this government—you already mentioned it, and I'd like to have it on the record again—and the assurance of where the money would go, and if we were not seeing bureaucratic bloat and administrative costs and money lost to where it directly needs to go, what would be your advice for a budget?

[Beth Potter]

We have made a submission through the federal tourism growth strategy and within that submission, one of our major recommendations is to put a tool in place. A cabinet committee is the one that comes to mind for us, but we are willing to look at other options whereby those 24 ministries and departments are held accountable for the growth of the tourism industry.

When I say growth, it's not just dollars. It's growth in infrastructure. It's making sure we're competitive on the global level. It's making sure that we're providing sustainable employment for Canadians.

There are many policy discussions that need to happen over the course of the next few years in order for us to not just get back to where we were in 2019, but also to begin that pathway of growth again. We were the highest growing economic sector in the country prior to the pandemic. We want to go back and be that sector again, because the receipts that come into the country through the tourism industry are new money, and that helps to pay for a lot of the other things that we've been talking about here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you Ms. Potter and MP Ferreri.

Members, this will be our last questioner. It's the Liberals. We have MP Chatel, for five minutes please.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

I was thrilled to see that my Conservative colleague finally saw the light of day on carbon pricing. Of course, the big economies are talking about border carbon adjustment. In fact, it is no secret that the EU and the U.S. are very interested in that, so let me ask a question. What would happen to Canada's exports to the U.S. and the EU if we didn't have carbon pricing? That's why we need a responsible government solution, not a slogan.

Mr. Darby, would you explain again to this committee the importance of having both the carrot and the stick in order to help our businesses to transition towards a green economy and be successful in tomorrow's economy?

[Dennis Darby]

Thank you for the question, Madam. Let me endeavour to look at it this way.

The decision to collect the carbon tax and to put a price on carbon was.... What we talk about adamantly is that the money from that needs to come back to help companies transition, because that's where it becomes valuable. It becomes valuable if we use that money we collect to help companies compete, and that they can compete with the EU and the U.S. ultimately. I think from that point of view, we just need to complete that circle, make sure that we're providing those incentives and those supports so the companies can do that transition. I think that's when we will see the advantage.

Right now it looks a bit balanced more towards the stick than the carrot, but I think the potential is there. Long term, it will be important for Canada to have reached net zero because it will ultimately impact ESG principles. It will impact our ability to compete with Europe and with the U.S.

We just need to continue on the path, in my opinion.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I cannot agree more.

I have a question for Mr. Freedman.

I my riding, we have two great local radio stations, CHGA and CHIP FM, as well as several local newspapers.

Concretely, how will your proposal help them to meet the challenges they are facing right now, which I hear about so much from them?

[Alex Freedman]

Let's talk for a moment about CHIP FM, because CHIP did an amazing thing during the pandemic. Everybody was locked in their house. Municipal processes were still ongoing. CHIP FM put a microphone inside the MRC, and they were able to broadcast the municipal meetings to the entire population. That gave everybody in the Pontiac region access to the democratic process. That's part of the antidote that we talked about, and that's so important.

What are we saying? Number one, extend the LJI, the local journalism initiative. CHIP has benefited greatly. Both stations in the area have benefited greatly from the ability to have a salary to hire a journalist because they can barely pay their station managers. To have that ability is a remarkable thing.

The second element is that this benefits everybody, not just the community radio stations. This benefits the community newspapers. This benefits community television. The extension of the local journalism initiative will benefit journalists writ large across the community network, the community element, which is so important. It's not isolated. This is a significant solution.

The second part we talk about is this core funding for all community stations. It's much less than what the CBC gets, but it's something that allows them to operate without worrying about whether they're going to be able to keep their transmitters operating, or whether they're going to be able to buy a new mixing board to transition to digital because that's where their new listeners are. Core funding like that will allow them to operate and then to continue to fundraise and invest what they fundraise back into that community.

Everything they do is the underpinning of making sure there's a voice for the people who live in Pontiac, in Miramichi, in Niagara Falls, where you don't get regular information about your community because you're inundated by U.S. stations, or in Peterborough where Trent University has a remarkable radio station and does incredible things. I could on and on. We are part of the community, and that's why we are so important to the viable information....

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I'm very interested in your proposals because they seem very humble and realistic to me. I would be very grateful if you could submit them in writing and perhaps provide us more guidance, especially as you propose to use the funding of C-11. I'd like to know how we can do that.

[Alex Freedman]

It would be a pleasure.

Thank you for your time.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Excellent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

That's the time, MP Chatel. I know it goes very quickly. It went so fast this time because we have incredible witnesses here with us.

I would like to, as I said, call you all partners. On behalf of our committee, you've really helped kick-start our pre-budget consultations in advance of budget 2023. On behalf of members of the committee, the clerk, the analysts, the interpreters and all of the staff, we want to thank you for all of the questions that you answered, and for the great deal of information and ideas that you have provided for us today. Thank you very much. We wish you the best with your evening.

Members, I want to inform you that on the 17th we will have MP Gladu for the first hour, and then departmental officials for the second hour. Just be aware of that.

On that note, members, shall we adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you very much, everybody. Have a great evening.

The meeting is adjourned.