Finance Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We're just in the middle of a transition here. I believe Mr. Chan is here to answer your question.

Perhaps you can introduce yourself and the department, and answer the member's question.

[David Chan, Acting Director, Asylum Policy, Performance and Governance Division, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Good afternoon. I'm David Chan, acting director of asylum policy at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.

What these amendments bring is not really related to the safe third country agreement. The amendments we're putting forward are in relation to the practice of online claims that were introduced during the pandemic. We weren't able to do these processes in person, so we allowed claimants to file their claims online.

With the pandemic behind us, we're looking to formalize this arrangement because it has provided enormous benefits to case processing for claimants to be able to access their claims online, and for a more seamless data transfer among departments that are involved in claim processing.

That's really the main focus of the amendments under division 16.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

When this amendment says that folks will have to apply in person, that's in addition to applying online. The idea is that they will do an online application, but they won't count as having applied until they appear in person. It's more like an in-person component. It's not like the entire application is done in person. Am I understanding that properly?

[David Chan]

You're correct that the amendments will more formally introduce an in-person requirement. As you can imagine, prior to the pandemic the process by which a claimant would make a claim was always done in person. It was never necessary to put that in law.

Now that we're embracing the online mechanism, we need to be more clear in law to say that a claim is not considered made from the perspective of the law until the claimant meets with an officer to verify some of the integrity requirements from the IRCC's perspective. It's just for collecting their documents. It's just for verification that they're in fact in Canada, because that's a fundamental principle of why we provide protection to claimants.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Blaikie and Mr. Chan.

Now we're going to the Conservatives and back to MP Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just picking up where I left off, there are a few other legislative initiatives within part 4, like attempts to solve issues with Canada Post parcels being stolen—and I'm not sure what that has to do with a budget—and establishing the employment insurance appeal board.

I guess my point is that a few years ago I thought there was a lesson learned. A few years ago, in the budget implementation bill, there was a section that amended the Criminal Code to allow for deferred prosecution agreements. That initiative led to a major scandal that resulted in the dismissal of the first indigenous attorney general in the history of Canada.

When I see these kinds of bills, I worry, because there's just so much in them. I know the government wants to get their bill passed, and there's pressure to get it done.

I'm wondering if anyone can answer this question. Are there any changes in Bill C-47 that would benefit any one particular company? Can anyone here answer that? You don't know. There might be. There's a lot of silence around the table.

Okay, I'll go on to something else, but I think that non-response speaks volumes.

I want to ask a question about SEMA and the Magnitsky act. Is there someone here who can take that up?

Specifically, my question has to do with the prior changes. The briefing notes say:

In response to Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine...Canada implemented legislative changes to both SEMA and JVCFOA to authorize the Minister of Foreign Affairs to seek forfeiture of seized assets. The forfeited funds can be used in support of reconstruction of a foreign State, to restore international peace and security, and/or as compensation to victims.

I'm just wondering what action has happened under that section since it was implemented. What's the value of assets seized to date? Have any of these monies been allocated to reconstruction or as compensation to victims?

[Marie-Josée Langlois, Director General, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

My name is Marie-Josée Langlois. I'm the director general for the strategic policy branch at Global Affairs Canada.

Thank you for your question on the sanctions and the seizure and forfeiture clauses that were passed last summer.

As you know, those clauses were passed last summer. In December, the government announced a first seizure of $26 million, which is believed to be related to Roman Abramovich.

The departments are working together on gathering information and following due process. The clauses bring into place a multistep process. Once seizures are done of assets related to listed persons, we work together to develop the evidentiary package and find the information to support an application. The second step is an application to the superior court of the province in which the assets are found. From there, depending on the decision of the court, the disposal of the proceeds will follow the act.

In terms of the first assets, we're still working on those steps.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Is $26 million the total amount that's been seized?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

The RCMP lists the amounts that were frozen, because as soon as sanctions come into force, amounts are frozen. Canadians can no longer deal with listed people. The RCMP has a website that provides the amounts that were frozen, which is updated regularly.

The first seizure was of $26 million in funds.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

When I was on the foreign affairs committee, we spent a lot of time talking about the sanctions, of course, especially once the invasion took place.

Do you think the particular legislative changes outlined in division 10 should be studied at the foreign affairs committee, as opposed to the finance committee?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

I know the foreign affairs committee talks about sanctions quite a bit, as you've noted. There's been a decision by them recently saying that they would like to look at sanctions issues.

The Senate committee is also looking at the sanctions legislation, with a report that will soon be forthcoming.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Morantz.

Now we're off to the Liberals and MP Baker, please, for five minutes.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

I'd like to start by thanking everybody for being here.

Usually, I like to ask questions of every witness on the panel. You'll forgive me if I don't do that today, but I want to sincerely thank you for all your work in preparing the BIA and for your work on behalf of Canadians every day. Thank you for being with us here today to share your knowledge.

What I want to do is come back to Ms. Langlois, if I could, on the topic that was being discussed previously on the seizure of assets.

Could you speak briefly to what the desired impact is of the measure whereby the Canadian government can not only sanction and freeze those assets, but actually seize them and use them for the reconstruction of Ukraine? What's the intended impact?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

At the heart of the sanctions application, including the seizure and forfeiture parts of it, is an intention to change behaviour, to hold people to account in terms of respecting international norms and rules, and to advocate for key issues for Canada. An example is the protection of human rights and addressing significant corruption.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

In the context of Russia's genocidal war on Ukraine, what are some of the desired changes in behaviour that we are hoping to see as a result of the measures you've just spoken about?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

In terms of the sanctions that have been imposed to date in the context of Russia, as you can see, a number of measures have been imposed. There are dealings bans on Canadians. There are also services measures and measures related to goods.

Basically, we want to send the signal that the situation is not acceptable, and that those who try to benefit from or support that situation cannot use the Canadian financial system and cannot use Canadians to enrich themselves or support or contribute to what's going on right now.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I represent a community called Etobicoke Centre, which is a suburban community that borders Pearson airport in Toronto. It brings joy to me every time I drive up Highway 427, which is adjacent to Pearson airport, because I see a big cargo plane with a big Russian flag parked there. I don't know if it was strategically planned that way, but I really appreciate that they parked the plane in such a way that it has maximum visibility. My understanding is that it's been parked there since late February of last year, shortly after Russia's further invasion of Ukraine.

My understanding is that it is subject to sanctions. In other words, it cannot be moved. I believe that was initially because of transport regulations.

Are you able to speak to that particular plane and what the Government of Canada's intent is with regard to that plane?

[Marie-Josée Langlois]

Last year, in February, as you noted, the Department of Transport had a no-fly measure for planes of Russian origin. That's why the plane is at Pearson airport. On April 11, the government announced sanctions on the Volga-Dnepr Group, which is believed to be the owner of that aircraft. That aircraft is now frozen, as are the assets of anyone who is on the list of sanctioned individuals and persons.

In terms of future plans, I cannot address that.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

My hope is we freeze, seize and sell as many of the assets as possible of those linked in any way with supporting Russia's war in Ukraine. I think it would have the impact of getting the behaviour we need to see, as you suggested earlier, by imposing costs on the Russian state, on Vladimir Putin and on his regime. I think the more costs are imposed, the more likely it is that Russia will eventually have to withdraw from Ukraine and stop perpetrating the human rights abuses it perpetrates every day against the Ukrainian people.

Not only that, but it's really important that we.... I believe we should impose the harshest sanctions possible. These measures are part of that.

I thank you for the work you've done thus far. I encourage you and your colleagues to do as much as you possibly can as quickly as you possibly can. It's not just because lives are at stake in Ukraine or Ukrainian sovereignty is at stake. I think Ukraine winning this war is in Canada's interests, for our security and the quality of life we enjoy here in Canada. I think we need to do everything we can so Ukraine wins. When Ukraine wins, we will all win.

I thank you for that work and I encourage you to keep moving forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Baker and Ms. Langlois.

I border MP Baker's riding and drive up Highway 427, and I have to say that it does give me a great deal of glee to look at that plane parked there and to know that sanctions have stopped it from moving. Hopefully it can be sold to help with Ukraine.

We're on to round three of questions.

I have MP Chambers for five minutes for the Conservatives, please.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to talk about the EI changes, specifically for workers in the 13 regions where we're planning to extend EI by an additional five weeks.

My understanding is that the five-week extension is a temporary measure.

[Benoit Cadieux]

That's correct. The measure is being extended by one year, up to October 28, 2024.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

What's the average unemployment in the 13 regions above the national average? Does that makes sense?