Evidence of meeting #87 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ministers.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:35 a.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Absolutely. I think we will also be looking at the impacts on employment of the shippers and whether they were able to ship more of what forestry or agriculture was able to grow.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Do you think through legislation we can cause farmers to grow more grain?
11:35 a.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Well, maybe they will get better contracts so that grain can be shipped differently, or better access, which helps.
This is a measure that shippers say is very important for their businesses to grow. It's not limited to just grain. It is all commodities. Last time, there were different industries that used it, such as chemicals. We know that forest products have been interested in this also.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Could you provide the committee with a list of industry associations or companies that, in the course of the consultation that went into preparing this measure, have asked for the increased interswitching distance?
11:35 a.m.
Director General, Surface Transportation Policy, Department of Transport
Yes.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you very much.
Mr. Chair, I'm doing a time check. How am I doing?
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you.
For the officials from ESDC, I wanted to confirm the sections of the act that pertain to the employment insurance board of appeal.
We have a bill currently before Parliament that institutes changes to that appeal mechanism. Are these provisions identical to the separate bill that's currently before the House?
11:35 a.m.
Steven Coté Executive Director, Employment Insurance, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Mr. Chair, there's another person coming in the room to speak to those measures.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
We can pause the time to allow for that official to make his or her way into the room.
May 2nd, 2023 / 11:35 a.m.
Robert Lalonde Director, Individual Payments and On-Demand Services, Benefits and Integrated Services Branch, Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you, MP Blaikie. That's the time.
Witnesses and members, we are moving into our second round of questions. The timing is a little different in this round.
We'll be starting with the Conservatives, and that's for five minutes.
I have MP Lawrence.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
I was hoping to talk to the Privy Council. If Mr. Girouard could join us, that would be terrific.
Thank you very much, sir.
I have some questions with respect to our great public officials, and I do mean great.
I thank you all for being here. I know you work very hard.
If you don't have the answers right now, that's fine. You can provide them in writing.
For transparency, what is the total cost per civil servant right now? That means their salary, equipment and computer. What is the cost per civil servant?
11:35 a.m.
Senior Privy Council Officer, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Is there perhaps an official that the question could be better directed to? I'm here on behalf of the Privy Council Office for the Royal Style and Titles Act.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
I have “machinery of government” as your title here.
Could someone from the Treasury Board...?
11:40 a.m.
Senior Privy Council Officer, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Perhaps that would be the best choice, yes.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
No worries.
As I said, I don't need the answer today. If we could get it in writing, that would be great.
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Costing, Charging and Transfer Payments, Treasury Board Secretariat
Good morning. Thank you for the question.
This is Nicole Thomas, executive director within the financial management sector at Treasury Board Secretariat.
That question is outside of the area of my responsibility, but I'd be happy to take it to officials.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
That's perfect.
Could we also get what the cost was in 2008?
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Costing, Charging and Transfer Payments, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
I have another question for you. This might be outside of your scope, but I would appreciate if you could take it back and provide an answer in writing.
What's the impact of the recent settlement with respect to PSAC on the debt, the deficit and government spending?
11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Costing, Charging and Transfer Payments, Treasury Board Secretariat
Again, I don't have an answer for you today, but I can take that back.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
That's great. Thank you very much for that.
I'm going to give the rest of my time to Marty.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to start more with a comment about this particular budget. Part 4 in particular has 39 divisions. Each division in and of itself could be an independent piece of legislation.
Going through this is really overwhelming. For example, the part about division 24—the Customs Act and Quarantine Act—just in the Q and A is 21 pages long.
I'm not sure I'm really clear on how we as a finance committee can give proper scrutiny to something like this. I'm not the only one who feels this way when it comes to this sort of omnibus legislation. For example, in 2013, the current Prime Minister said that he was upset with the prior government doing this exact sort of thing. He said, “omnibus bills...prevent Parliament from properly reviewing and debating his proposals. We will...bring an end to this undemocratic practice.”
On omnibus bills, he went on to say, “I wouldn't use them.” This is in 2013. “There will always be big bills, but they need to be thematically and substantively linked in all their different pieces so that they form a piece of legislation. The kitchen-sink approach here is a real worry to me.”
I'm wondering how this happens. The Government of Canada's website defines what a budget is: “The Budget is a blueprint for how the Government wants to set the annual economic agenda for Canada.” However, in division 4 there are provisions on refugees. I'm sure a lot of these are laudable goals. I'm not criticizing the legislation itself, but we see the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, the Yukon Act, the Marine Liability Act, the Wrecked, Abandoned or Hazardous Vessels Act, passenger air rights, the National Research Council Act, the Patent Act, and cosmetic testing on animals, which I'm sure is a very laudable goal. I'm not sure what it's doing, though, in a budget implementation bill.
Do you see my problem?
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.
I think the questions the honourable member has are very important. I think it is very important for us to be responding to why we're putting certain elements into a bill. I think all the questions being asked are super important.
I do not believe, though, that they are questions for our civil servants, who are here to answer technical questions on each of the items. I think they should be reserved for our minister when she comes.