Finance Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I have MP Morantz and then MP Dzerowicz.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I don't know why.... How is it that the Conservatives have a point of order on their own motions? They're speaking to their own motions.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I think you can have a point of order at any time.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I'm going to raise a point of order on something procedural.

I don't think it's procedurally in order to revoke something that the committee has already decided.

Can we have the clerk maybe rule that this is not in order?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Dzerowicz, it was out of order.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Are we no longer talking about the new subamendment that Mr. Lawrence has put on the table?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We are at the new subamendment.

The other subamendment was ruled out of order. This is the subamendment to MP Blaikie's amendment, which is (h) at the end of MP Beech's motion.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I have another point of order, Mr. Chair.

Hasn't the committee already voted on the requirement to not start clause-by-clause without the minister appearing for two hours as part of the old subamendment? I'm so lost.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We did not vote on that. That was just ruled out of order.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

If I may, Mr. Chair, I think Ms. Dzerowicz is referring to.... In fact, we are on the third subamendment. We had the first subamendment that we voted on not that long ago. Then we had a second subamendment that was ruled out of order. Now I think we're technically on the third subamendment, if you count the one that was ruled out of order as a subamendment.

I think what she's asking is whether the first subamendment had the question of tying the minister's appearance to the beginning of clause-by-clause. If so, I think the argument she's making is that the question has already been decided by the committee, and the committee can't be asked to decide the same question twice. I think that's her argument.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Yes. Thank you for articulating it better than I have, Mr. Blaikie.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

On that point of order, Mr. Chair, my recollection is that the first—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Morantz, we're going to suspend for two minutes. We're going to confer with the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Dzerowicz, what we voted on was the subamendment to the amendment. We did not vote on the amendment and subamendment as a whole. We voted on the subamendment. That was that the Minister of Public Safety appear and that clause-by-clause not be scheduled unless both of these ministers have appeared.

Hang on one second, MP Dzerowicz.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Pardon me, Mr. Chair. I think the question was for you to rule on the principle of whether the committee—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Both of the ministers get rolled in here, so would that not be both ministers?

[The Clerk]

Yes.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Now we're just changing it to one because we couldn't agree on both.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Are we suspending?

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Chair, you have to rule on whether the amendment is in order.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I think part of the question that's at stake here is whether the principle of tying the beginning of clause-by-clause...was an important component of the subamendment that the committee has already decided on in its vote on subamendment one.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Do we need another 10-minute break?

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I suspect we're going to be here for 10 minutes anyhow, so if we need a break, so be it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

My ruling is that it captured, as I see it, the Minister of Finance.