Finance Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Is there any official who has started the planning process on reducing their budget by 3%? In six or seven months, you're going to be reducing your budget by 3%. Has anyone started that planning process?

You can take the microphone. If you're in the other room, you can run in here right now and tell me that you've started the process of cutting 3%.

[Lindy VanAmburg]

This is Lindy VanAmburg from Health Canada. I think in most of our departments or agencies, that would be a question for our chief financial officers. I don't imagine they've been invited here today.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Let's invite them, then, Mr. Chair. I have some skepticism, and I think maybe that was validated by the response there.

Next I would like to talk about the clean fuel regulations. If anyone is able to comment on the clean fuel regulations, I'd very much like to hear from them.

Again, thank you to all the officials for being here in the crowded room. I very much appreciate you being here, especially in the room.

As I said, you may not know these numbers off the top of your head, so an answer in writing will be more than fine. What will be the total cost to the economy of implementing the clean fuel regulations?

[Paola Mellow]

Thank you for that question. My name is Paolo Mellow. I'm executive director of the low-carbon fuels division at Environment and Climate Change Canada.

I have not come prepared to speak to the costs. However, an economic assessment accompanied the final regulations. That is public. It does detail the economic framework that was used to assess the regulations. It has costs, it has benefits and it has greenhouse gas reductions. That information is publicly available.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that. If you could send the link to the committee, that would be terrific.

Would you happen to know from that report, or even within a reasonable margin of error, what the cost per litre of gasoline, diesel or home heating fuel would be?

[Paola Mellow]

I would prefer to follow up in writing, because there is a suite of economic assumptions made around the analysis. I would not want to misrepresent any of the costs without having that framework.

We absolutely can respond in writing.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

That's fine. That's great.

What would be the cost to the government of enforcing the clean fuel regulations?

[Paola Mellow]

Again, that economic analysis will include cost estimates to government for administering the regulations.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Perfect. You're now excused, as it were. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

Next I want to talk to someone with respect to the National Research Council.

That's you, Mr. Turcot. Thank you very much.

It's my understanding that you are asking to have your own separate procurement process. I'm curious to know why.

[Marcel Turcot]

Thank you for the question. I'm director general of policy at the National Research Council.

What we are intending to do with this measure is speed up the operations of the NRC so we can better work with our Canadian business partners and academic innovators. At the NRC, we often have to procure pieces of scientific equipment in order to perform our research services and technical services with our collaborators and clients. We perform R and D services for those clients. The purpose of the measure is to speed up that process so that we're not having our clients wait six months to a year for us to process the paperwork through the normal cycle.

What we would like to do is have an increased speed of operations so that we have a more rapid response and more effective partnerships with our clients, overseen by a procurement oversight board that will ensure that we have all the appropriate mechanisms in place.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

I understand the necessity for procurement. I completely understand and respect that need. However, you're saying that through the normal Public Works process, you'd have to wait six months to a year to get what you need.

[Marcel Turcot]

It depends on what you're procuring. It depends on the financial limits, the types of contracts and the specifics that you want to put into the contracts. For example, if you have to go through Public Works and then get Treasury Board approval, that process can take six months to a year. That's what I was referring to in my response.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Lawrence.

Now we'll go to MP MacDonald for five minutes.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question will be on EI.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We'll just wait for the transition.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Chair, I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Beech today.

Mr. Cadieux, sticking to the Gordon Lightfoot tribute, Mr. Chambers asked some of the questions that I was going to ask. If you could read my mind, Mr. Chambers.... I think you did.

What criteria is utilized to determine which economic regions are eligible for the extension, compared to those that are not?

[Benoit Cadieux]

As I mentioned in the previous round of questions, the regions were determined in 2017 for the 2018 to 2021 pilot. There were two conditions they had to meet. They had to have an unemployment rate higher than the national average, which at the time was 6.3%. Those regions also had to have a higher than average percentage of seasonal workers. At the time, about 4% of the workforce had to be seasonal workers. Those were the two criteria used for why those 13 regions were chosen.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you.

I'm from Prince Edward Island, by the way, which is a very seasonal province in Canada. We have two EI zones, which is unfortunate. We have families on one side of the road who require so many hours. Possibly a family member lives across the road and requires fewer than those hours. That was an initiative of the former Conservative government. It is extremely unfair in Prince Edward Island.

Thank you for the answer.

I'll now turn my time over to Mr. Beech.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We'll move on to PS Beech.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to my colleague for generously sharing his time.

Colleagues, there have been significant discussions about the motion that I tabled yesterday. My apologies to the 48 officials who are currently here. Hopefully we'll get back to you very quickly.

Given that it's the topic we're currently studying, I would like to take this opportunity to move this motion. I apologize in advance for the length. It is a necessity to make sure that we meet the needs and desires of all the conversations we had. Members will find that it is in a form similar to last year's to make sure that we get a minimum of 20 hours of witness study.

The other aspect speaks to something that Mr. Morantz was referring to earlier in this meeting, which is dividing up the bill and a timeline for that, and sending some of these sections to committee. If other committees would like to comment on or study them, they'll have the opportunity to do so.

The one thing I'll note is you'll find that everybody's opinions on how it should be divided were included here. There were a couple of minor conflicts. Luckily we were able to work with critics and resolve those conflicts around which criteria or which content should go to which individual committee. This reflects the consensus of all committee members.

I hope we can pass it rather quickly.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, PS Beech.

I did see some hands go up. It's MP Chambers and then MP Lawrence. Is that correct?

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Is it the ruling of the chair that the motion is valid, given it has not seen the proper notice period?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

It is procedural. It is allowed.

[Adam Chambers, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I think we should allow our witnesses to go home. This is going to take some time.

Don't worry. You won't offend us. You can probably feel free to go.