Evidence of meeting #19 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was billion.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director, Financial Services Innovation, Department of Finance
Yes, there have absolutely been discussions with the provinces. I have to be frank: We haven't had a conversation about this specific issue—
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
I'm not talking about the other provinces. I'm talking about Quebec.
Director, Financial Services Innovation, Department of Finance
It has not been raised with me that there is a misalignment.
We've been working with provincial representatives throughout, I would say, the last several years to ensure that there isn't misalignment, so—
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
I'm not talking about the other provinces. I'm talking about the Desjardins case, because it is specifically dealt with in Bill 25. You have certainly studied Bill 25. That was part of your homework.
Director, Financial Services Innovation, Department of Finance
Certainly, we have had conversations with Desjardins and with representatives from the Province of Quebec.
Bloc
Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC
Have you come up with any solutions to ensure that the regime that is currently applied at Desjardins and that has been modernized won't be too different from the one applied to other co-operatives? That's the question.
Director, Financial Services Innovation, Department of Finance
Yes. I can speak to this very quickly.
The first is—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Unfortunately, we've run out of time for this round.
Thank you, Mr. Garon.
Mr. Lefebvre, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to join my colleague and all the members of our caucus in offering our deepest condolences to you, Madam Chair, the Liberal family and all the elected members here. I think we're still affected. Regardless of political stripe, we develop friendships over the years. My thoughts are with her family and the entire Liberal family.
My question is about division 16 of part 5 of the Bank Act, concerning consumer fraud. Do the proposed amendments to division 16 require banks and telecom operators to block fraud in real time?
Director, Consumer Affairs, Department of Finance
The short answer is that the budget implementation act proposes several elements. One is around policies and procedures. We are enumerating several issues that banks would need to have policies and procedures around, as well as the potential to prescribe additional policies and procedures through regulations.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Will any direction be given for this to be done? Is that the goal?
Director, Consumer Affairs, Department of Finance
Are you asking about the objective for the policies and procedures?
In the Bank Act, it is fairly typical for there to be requirements around policies and procedures. One benefit of having policies and procedures is that it creates a more rigorous system within the bank to address issues. As well, if the bank does not follow its policies and procedures, then customers can address that through an external complaints process.
In the absence of policies and procedures, it is relatively more difficult to use this avenue of seeking some sort of remediation or rectification of the issue.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
We want mechanisms to be put in place to instantly stop fraudulent transactions against seniors. We also have to impose penalties and sanctions on people who commit crimes like this against seniors. We have a duty to reassure seniors by letting them know that penalties will be imposed on people who commit this type of crime.
Is that where you are headed right now?
Director, Consumer Affairs, Department of Finance
That is not within the budget implementation act, but I would note that budget 2025 also announced the development of a national anti-fraud strategy. This will be a multisectoral strategy, and it is under development as we speak.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Division 38 seeks to amend the Borrowing Authority Act to increase the maximum borrowing amount from $1.8 trillion to $2.126 trillion.
When was the last time the country's borrowing capacity was increased?
Matthew Emde Director General, Funds Management Division, Department of Finance
The limit was increased in spring 2024. That was the last time.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
On average, how often is the borrowing capacity typically increased?
Director General, Funds Management Division, Department of Finance
It is usually done every three years. That is our goal, but it depends on the circumstances.
Conservative
Éric Lefebvre Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
You're saying that it should typically be done every three years. Right now, we're increasing the borrowing capacity every 18 months, or every year and a half.
The deficit rose to $78 billion for 2025-26. The projected deficit is $65 billion for 2026-27, $64 billion for 2027-28, $58 billion for 2028-29 and $57 billion for 2029-30. That's a total of $321 billion.
Debt charges in 2025-26 are $55.6 billion. That's more than all the GST collected across the country.
Now we're printing money. The debt continues to grow.
How do you see the debt progressing? Do you see that we're headed for a wall? When can we expect to return to a balanced budget?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Thank you, Mr. Lefebvre. This round is now over.
We will continue with Mr. Fragiskatos for five minutes.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'll be asking about part 5, division 44, on the national school food program act. Are officials here okay to answer that?
No. Okay.
We'll have to return to that, Madam Chair. As you know very well, that is really important and a critical issue, I think, for all parliamentarians in a difficult time.
There's a health measure I want to point to in division 25, part 5, on the Human Pathogens and Toxins Act. Admittedly, it's perhaps an obscure area, but as far as health care is concerned, and lessons from the pandemic, I want to put it forward as a question.
I'm not sensing that we have someone here to look at that either.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Karina Gould
Just for clarity, the officials are here from the Department of Finance. They can answer questions related to matters that are under the purview of the Department of Finance.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
Okay.
Take it as a compliment: I consider the Department of Finance to have purview over everything.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
We'll go back to consumer banking, then, and where we left it in terms of the path forward.
Ms. Fraser, you were saying before, in the back-and-forth we had, that this would put us—I think you said—at the very least on par with what other G7 countries have pursued.