Finance Committee on June 1st, 2026

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Last week, the committee heard from Charles‑Félix Ross, executive director of the Union des producteurs agricoles, who said: “Budget cuts and the closure of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada research centres are undermining the sector's ability to find concrete solutions to address climate change, improve practices and ensure the competitiveness of Canadian farms.”

Minister, do you have the same concerns as the representatives of the Union des producteurs agricoles about the competitiveness of farm businesses?

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

No, I think we need to act more quickly and to be precise in our decisions relevant to science and research in this country. It's more on the operational side that we're seeing changes. The science is going to get done one way or another, and we'll keep growing on that.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, of which I am a member, has just adopted a report on the closure of research centres. I imagine you've read it.

Basically, the committee is asking your government to reverse its decision, publish cost-benefit analyses to justify your measures, look at other ways to reduce spending, preserve existing research projects and table an action plan to ensure the sustainability of agricultural research. In short, the committee, which is now made up mostly of people from your party, is asking you to go back and do your homework.

Are you familiar with the report? Do you have any comments on it?

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

As I said, I think that the more industry and stakeholders you talk to across the country, the more you start to see a shift saying that we need research that is being done for industry very specifically.

Just two weeks ago in Saskatchewan, I heard it right from the scientists themselves at the University of Saskatchewan, along with stakeholders sitting at the table. To be very blunt about it, they were aligned with what we're trying to do and our vision for research in this country. There will still be 17 establishments across the country. There are changes, and those changes are hard. They're not easy to do, but we're going to continue to do the research.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I don't want to contradict you, but that's not what we're hearing. On the contrary, I believe that about 97% of the witnesses, with the possible exception of only you, emphasized the fact that the ecosystem is being broken and that all this has a clear impact on the health of Canadians and on the productivity of farmland.

That created a great deal of concern, in particular for the people of the community of Swift Current and the people of Lacombe. In addition, the cumulative loss of data over several decades creates concerns for people in the industry, who rely on that data.

You feel justified in turning your back on science in this way and changing course. What matters are the savings to be made, as you said earlier. You mentioned $27 million in savings over three years.

Knowing that the deficit is close to $72 billion, you think that cuts to science and research in the agricultural sector are justified.

Is that correct?

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Basically, the research is going to get done. I'll continue to say that. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face. I will ensure that. I am not going to have a legacy on my behalf of sitting here and saying that I cut research. Research is too important when it's trade around the world, so we're going to continue to do research. There are 355 scientists across the country. There will likely be 25 fewer. Some of those will retire and so on and so forth.

The research is going to be done. It may be done in conjunction with academia and the provincial governments. That's the discussion we're into now in order to maintain some of these facilities. They may look a little different, and the research may look a little different, but certainly we're working with all provinces that are affected by this.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I imagine that you also intend to work with educational institutions, universities and college technology transfer centres in Quebec.

However, I am concerned about the relationship we have with researchers. Some researchers have been told that they can either stop all their research and receive a year's salary, or continue working to complete their research. Obviously, scientists want to complete their research, but that means they will no longer be paid. A year from now, after serving this country, they're going to be left with nothing.

Is this really the legacy we're leaving to scientists who wanted to work to improve the conditions of agricultural practices for humans, plants and animals across the country, on all types of soil, and to reduce the impact?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Please give a very brief response.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

We'll continue to work with our researchers across the country. It will be a shared value. If research has to move from one facility to another, then that's the process we'll take.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

We'll continue now with Mr. Barlow for five minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'll go in a different direction, one that I wasn't expecting, because of the questions from my colleague and your responses, Minister.

You said the science is going to get done and you don't want your legacy to be cuts to science and research. Well, I've got bad news for you: That's already your legacy—shutting down seven research centres and experimental farms, with 600-plus scientists, researchers and specialists losing their jobs. That is just a fact.

You were saying that the research is going to get done by the private sector and universities, but your own quote in the House of Commons was that investment in research is down 15% on the public side; in the private sector and universities, it's down 77%; and for enterprises conducting research and development, it has shrunk by 30%.

Every single witness we had from the provinces, municipalities and universities said they do not have the resources to carry on this research. It's very clear that this research is not going to continue. These intergenerational libraries of knowledge will be lost. I don't know how you could possibly say that this isn't your legacy, because, very clearly, right now it is.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I think you mentioned knowledge transfer. That has decreased over the past 20 years, very expeditiously. You're actually answering part of your own question. Research has to change in this country. The more we delve into this, sitting alongside researchers and sitting alongside stakeholders, from your province as well, we feel that there's an opportunity here to do research differently and to do research more precisely for the industry and stakeholders.

The times have changed. We need to move and meet the moment, and that's what we're trying to do.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I don't think doing research differently means closing critical research centres when you have a prison farm that's now $40 million-plus over budget. I don't think that is a good use of taxpayer dollars when those dollars could have kept the Lacombe research centre open for another three years, Quebec open for another three and a half years and the Nappan experimental farm open for another 20 years. That's where dollars would be much better spent.

Minister, you mentioned in your opening remarks the importance of trade. Have you done an economic analysis or an impact analysis on what signing the Mercosur trade agreement would mean for Canada's livestock industry? Obviously, these proponents are very concerned about the impact this would have. Have you personally told the Prime Minister to exempt agriculture from the Mercosur trade agreement because of the concerns raised by Canada's beef, pork and poultry producers?

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

There have been many discussions on Mercosur. Certainly, I've had discussions with Manny Sidhu, the minister responsible. I recently had discussions with negotiators—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Have you spoken to the Prime Minister, though? Have you personally told him the concerns that this will have a detrimental impact on Canadian livestock producers?

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Relative to Manny Sidhu, as I told you, we've spoken to the—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I'll take that as a no.

Has the CFIA or AAFC done.... We haven't inspected the partners in Brazil and Argentina since 2018 in terms of their animal health and disease traceability protocols. Have you done an analysis of what the impact would be of BSE, African swine fever or foot-and-mouth disease coming into Canada as a result of this trade agreement?

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I believe, honourable member, there have been inspections done, maybe not in certain areas, but there have been inspections done in that country.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Lastly, you were talking about the importance of making decisions using an economic lens. We now know that the Alto high-speed rail will impact and possibly end 5,500 farms. Has an economic impact analysis on food security, food affordability or food sovereignty been done when high-speed rail is going to potentially lead to the loss of 5,500 farms in eastern and central Canada?

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That's the first time I have heard that there would be a loss of 5,500 farms.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

You're cutting them in half, so that's likely going to end those farms.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

No. I think there are negotiations right now to ensure that farmers can get from one side of their field to the other, depending on where the rail goes. There's been lots of collaboration and co-operation with the UPA, with Martin Caron and with my office as well to ensure we are updated on a very frequent basis. There have also been very many conversations and many concerns from our own caucus relevant to the high-speed rail, and we'll continue to push the issue to ensure that farming continues in those areas.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I'm glad that other Liberal members are sharing concerns about the Alto rail. I hope that this is a wake-up call and that you abandon this boondoggle before it happens.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

We'll continue now with MP MacDonald for five minutes.