Finance Committee on Oct. 6th, 2025

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Well, you should ask yourself why you voted against measures that support Canadians. I think people watching at home would be surprised to see your voting record, that you voted against measures that would make their lives easier.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Minister, it's a very simple answer. I really want you to answer my question. Why are you changing how you're presenting it, rather than actually trying to balance the budget?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think Canadians are entitled to transparency. In a frank discussion between you and me, I think your husband, your family and everyone in your riding is entitled to more transparency to see the budgeting and where their tax dollars are going to be used. This is about transparency.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I agree that transparency is a good thing, but every single person in my riding does not get to rework their budget to see if it looks better at month's end. The bottom line is the bottom line. If you don't have money, you don't have money. Why are you changing how you're presenting the budget instead of actually balancing it?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

The bottom line is the bottom line, but I think you cannot be against giving more information to Canadians. People want to know where their money is going: Is it for expenses or for investments?

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

The result is the same.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Is the deficit going to be higher under your government and Mr. Carney's government compared to Trudeau's?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You should be informing your constituents that we have the lowest deficit-to-GDP ratio in the G7.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Minister, please, I'm asking a very simple question.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

That really matters.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Is it going to be higher than Trudeau's, or not?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You need to compare our fiscal position with the other G7 countries, because Canadians look at that and our colleagues and the bond rating agencies.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Minister, numbers don't change. It's black and white. I come from the financial sector.

Is it going to be higher than Trudeau's, or lower than Trudeau's?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I know you come from the financial sector. That's why I'm happy you're on the finance committee. You would know, because you're a very smart financial planner—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Cobena.

I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Leitão for two and a half minutes.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I have one more question for you. However, I would first like to clarify something.

The part of the budget that is invested in the economy will have an effect, an impact, on Canada's economic growth potential. It won't have an inflationary effect. We are not in the process of stimulating demand; we are in the process of stimulating supply and production capacity. There is no inflationary effect.

Minister, my question is about affordability.

Bill C‑4 deals with that. In the current context, where prices have indeed risen quickly for some products, what impact would Bill C‑4 have on affordability?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First of all, thank you, Mr. Leitão, for informing the committee members.

As a former Quebec finance minister and renowned economist, you have a good read on the subject. Honestly, as an economist, when you look at Canada's economic record and ratios, you understand that we're in a good position.

Obviously, we know that investment in infrastructure gets multiplied. The goal is to grow the Canadian economy. We have set a goal of having the strongest economy in the G7.

I would like to say that Bill C‑4 helps us. The government's flagship measure was the tax cut. I think my colleagues should celebrate that. The first thing we did was lower taxes for 22 million Canadians. When we talk about affordability, we're talking about more money in taxpayers' pockets. That was one of the first things we did.

I look at my colleagues and see that they are happy, ultimately, because this is an important measure. They voted for it. I hope they will vote for the measure at third reading, because it would be a bit awkward to go and explain to their constituents why they aren't voting in favour of a tax cut. We heard it this summer, and I know Mr. Garon heard it as well: The first thing people talk to us about is the cost of living, the second is housing and the third is the economy. I think it's pretty much the same for everybody.

I think the fact that we've already taken action to reduce the tax burden on Canadian households is important.

I thank my colleagues for voting in favour of this measure, and I am confident that they will do the same at third reading. I know that, in their hearts, they also want to help Canadians at the critical juncture we are at right now.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Leitão.

We will give the floor to Mr. Garon for a minute and a half.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, many conditional and ad hoc health transfer agreements are expiring.

You are telling us today that we may have an 18‑month budget. Therefore, I feel it appropriate to ask you the following question.

Starting next year, health transfers, as they are currently designed, will start to grow less quickly than health spending.

Can you tell us if you are going to significantly increase unconditional health transfers to the provinces in your budget?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First, I would like to correct your statement. I suggest you look at the statement or press release we issued today. There will be an economic update, as we do in the spring. There will be an economic update, but—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Minister, will health transfers increase this fall?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Garon, you're a renowned economist. For these questions, you will understand that a minister of finance, 30 days from the federal budget—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

—must know about health transfers.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

This is not the time to talk about that. You'll have to wait a little longer to get answers to all your questions. I know that, on November 4, you will be pleased with what is in the budget. There are many measures to help Quebeckers. I can tell you that this budget is good for the provinces, for the territories, for the regions, for industry and for this country.