Finance Committee on Oct. 6th, 2025

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you all.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. It was really difficult for you today.

Colleagues, we're going to suspend for a couple of minutes as we set up for the next phase of our meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Colleagues, we're going to get started on the second hour of our meeting today.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, June 12, 2025, and the motion adopted on September 22, 2025, the committee shall resume consideration of Bill C-4, an act respecting certain affordability measures for Canadians and another measure.

I would like to welcome our witnesses.

We have Jennifer Keesmaat, president and CEO of Collecdev-Markee; Geoff Cape, CEO of Assembly Corp.; and Richard Lyall, president of the Residential Construction Council of Ontario.

All virtual witnesses have conducted a mandatory witness onboarding test.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. I'll remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks, after which we will open the floor to questions.

We will begin with Ms. Keesmaat.

[Jennifer Keesmaat, President and Chief Executive Officer, Collecdev-Markee, As an Individual]

Hello, honourable committee members. It's a thrill to be here with you today and to speak to you regarding housing, in particular delivering affordable housing.

My name is Jennifer Keesmaat. I am the CEO of Collecdev-Markee, a Canadian development company focused on delivering purpose-built rental and affordable housing across Toronto, with a project in Hamilton as well. I am also the former chief planner of the City of Toronto, and I'm also the founder of the Canada Builds Modular Summit, an inaugural event that will take place on October 23. We look forward to welcoming Minister Robertson for a fireside chat, where we will be looking at creating a deeper and broader ecosystem to modernize construction in Canada.

At Collecdev-Markee, we are home builders, and let me tell you, it is tough out there. Our company is currently leading the development and construction of projects that directly advance federal and municipal housing priorities, including Tyndale Green, a 1,400-home, mixed-income mass timber modular community with a day care and community facilities, and 275 Merton Street, 447 purpose-built rental homes in the city of Toronto with 30% of units that will be affordable for 99 years. Both of those projects began construction this month.

On Bloor Street in downtown Toronto, we are rebuilding the Bloor Street United Church in the podium of a building that has about 300 residential homes above. It's a project that straddles the subway. It's incredibly complex, and this week we will be pouring the 14th-floor concrete slab. Window installation begins in the next few weeks. Residents are expected to move into their new homes in 2027.

We've also spent this year closing units and moving residents into 450 new transit-oriented homes in a new mid-rise building in the north of the city, and that includes affordable home ownership in partnership with Habitat for Humanity.

As you can see, we have housing at every stage of development, and these are exactly the kinds of projects this committee and our government want to see more of—projects that integrate affordability, sustainability, modularity and community amenities.

Today, though, these projects are the exception. They are not the norm. Many others, including viable sites in our pipeline and across the sector, are being deferred and cancelled outright as we speak, as a result of high government fees combined with uncertain market conditions and a stubbornly high cost to build.

I support the first-time homebuyer GST rebate in Bill C-4 as a step forward, but I see it only as that. I also believe it should be available to all buyers of primary residences, not just first-time homebuyers. In some ways, it's the beginning of what we should be doing.

We know that CMHC's last forecast shows that housing starts will decline by approximately 30,000 homes between 2024 and 2027. If that projection holds, the impact will be severe on both affordability and jobs. We know, based on StatCan data, that we are seeing tens of thousands of jobs being lost in construction across the country for framers, plumbers and electricians who build our homes. This doesn't even consider the broader supply chain that produces windows, concrete and drywall, all of the other businesses that feed into the development process and the $1-million contracts and $10-million contracts that our company tenders every single day as part of our projects. These are important companies building an important product, and right now they are on the cusp of significant decline in our country.

For this reason, I urge you to take an ecosystem approach to understanding housing delivery in Canada. We have locked too many into their existing homes, and they are being penalized by the GST, the land transfer tax and the high cost of development charges, or DCs, on new builds when people consider downsizing. This means that we lock up the system. It prevents families from being able to access the homes they need, and it prevents young people from thinking about a future and the dream of raising their family in this country. We have an industry that is robust and capable, and strangely, government fees such as taxes and DCs are the very last thing that should be hindering housing development.

We find ourselves in a rather bizarre situation. The government has signalled that it will act on development charges, but in the absence of doing so immediately, the industry will continue to slow.

If you sat and listened to the King during the Speech from the Throne, you heard him talk about DCs being cut in half across the country, but that hasn't yet been implemented.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Ms. Keesmaat, can I ask you to wrap up, please? Thank you.

[Jennifer Keesmaat]

Yes, absolutely.

I will say this: The risk to us right now is inaction. We need to move quickly. We needed to move quickly six months ago. We needed to move quickly two years ago. The longer we wait to get these policies in place, the more we will have to make up in the long run, as our industry continues to slow at a time when we need it to scale.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you so much, Ms. Keesmaat.

Mr. Cape, you have five minutes, please.

[Geoff Cape, Chief Executive Officer, Assembly Corp.]

Thank you.

I'm Geoff Cape, the CEO of Assembly. I am also here to represent a coalition we've put together over the course of the last six months, focused on industrialized construction: the Canadian industrialized construction coalition. It has over 100 companies aligned in their views on the policy requirements to try to advance affordability in Canada.

First off, thank you, all of you, for focusing on such a critically important subject, the affordability agenda. I understand that Bill C-4 has a particular focus on the GST relief, and that is an opportunity both to affect purchasers and to accelerate the construction of new builds. Certainly, I believe it's the right idea at the broadest level. It is an opportunity to help accelerate purchasing and create the necessary momentum in the industry, so it's warmly welcomed.

I suppose there is always a debate about whether it's enough, too much or not enough in regard to the scope of that particular policy recommendation. That's not for me to opine on. I know it's a policy initiative that's required in relation to a larger collection of policy agendas.

With that in mind, the announcement made by the Prime Minister and the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure on Sunday, September 14, to invest $13 billion in the Build Canada Homes initiative is the right companion to the GST relief strategy—the larger, more robust program that wraps around GST rebate and feeds and supports individual consumers of housing. That larger strategy is what I believe is the necessary focus for us as we drive towards affordability in Canada. It's a critical requirement for us to shift the way we build and the way we build our supply chain relationships in regard to the construction of housing in Canada.

With that in mind, the coalition we put together developed 19 primary and 17 secondary recommendations, all of them policies oriented towards financing, supply chain integration development and the critical requirement for streamlining approvals and approval processes across the country.

I'll leave it at that, other than to identify that the work Assembly is doing right now is drawing on global best practices. As a company, we spent the last seven years trying to figure out where in the world the most informed and advanced thinking is in regard to both policy and fabrication for affordable housing, and we landed on Sweden. We designed a deep working relationship with Lindbäcks, one of the largest firms in the world focused on modular housing. The learning curve for us, I think, is something we can share across the country. It's certainly an idea that should be shared through policy networks provincially, municipally and federally, of course. The opportunity to leapfrog in Canada is available to us, and that's my hope.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Cape. It's not often we get time back from opening statements.

Mr. Lyall, I go over to you.

[Richard Lyall, President, Residential Construction Council of Ontario]

Thank you for the opportunity to appear today.

Following finance minister Champagne is, I hope, a recognition of just how important addressing the housing crisis is for our country's future prosperity. As Prime Minister Carney has noted, we are dealing with a fracture on many levels. Housing is one of them.

We know the top two issues for Canadians are affordability and housing. How did we get to where we are now? The answer is essentially that we systemically dropped the ball. We took housing for granted, and no one was really paying collective attention or even aligning policies. The ratio of housing costs to incomes became grossly imbalanced, and we have ended up with a national crisis, with the epicentre in Ontario and Vancouver.

It should be kept in mind that the crisis varies in different regions of the country, and that makes one-size-fits-all federal solutions difficult. Alberta will build nearly 60,000 homes this year, roughly the same as Ontario, which has three times the population. Indeed, the Ontario situation is, by far, the worst in North America. Given that it's Canada's engine of growth and that we are facing unprecedented challenges from south of the border, this is bad news for the country as a whole.

Governments have taken some useful measures, yet the various targets set by them have not been met. In fact, we are going in the opposite direction. The solutions are complex to the uninitiated. The challenges are technocratic. Shelter, food and safety are unique economic, fundamental, basic needs for any society. People need housing. However, we are taxing it like cigarettes and alcohol, with so-called “sin taxes” designed to discourage use, which is just wrong-headed. RESCON was first to release a report demonstrating the scale of these costs. Dumping those costs onto the young and on first-time homebuyers in many jurisdictions is fundamentally unjust.

The affordability of housing is central to well-being and prosperity. You can't grow a modern economy without housing. You can't attract investment without it. We will only drive away our best and brightest without it. Builders have cut prices in a desperate attempt to make new projects work. Sales of new condos in our region of the country are down 90%, low-rise housing has fallen by 70% and there is no end in sight. The coming loss of employment will devastate the broader economy.

We have long advocated consumer relief, in the form of cutting sales taxes and development charges—which are a brutally regressive consumer tax—land transfer taxes and other charges. We also need approval processes to be streamlined and modernized here, like almost everywhere else. The private sector accounts for 90% of the housing that is produced, and that market is currently dysfunctional. There is a need for social housing as well, which we build, but the government must drive those solutions.

Bill C-4 addresses some issues, which is important. Of greater importance, though, is that the new federal government is doing what it said it would do. Do we think more is needed? Yes, but this is a critically important first step, in our view.

There are two issues of critical importance. The first is the first-time homebuyers sales tax for consumers. We commend the government for taking this step. While we thought it should have gone further, we welcomed it as providing some relief for first-time homebuyers.

It is unfortunate that this has not been picked up by the Province of Ontario. Tarion, Ontario's new home warranty program, noted that in 2024, 39% of new housing purchasers were first-time buyers. This and other mixed messages about just how many first-time buyers there are have had a chilling effect on the market, manifested by those waiting for sales tax relief to be extended by Ontario.

Sales of new housing in the GTA have reached a historic low: There will be fewer than 5,000 units sold this year. The first-time buyer break will help one segment of the market; I have no doubt that further measures will be needed to assist others. Homebuilding projects cannot pencil in on the scale required without consumer tax relief.

Another challenge lies with development charges, which have become a runaway tax grab camouflaged as a charge to developers. This is where the federal government's announcement with respect to addressing them in Ontario is critically important.

The housing accelerator fund must be more disciplined in rewarding municipalities that meet targets. A report we released last week with Mike Moffatt of the Missing Middle Initiative scored 22 of 34 Ontario municipalities with an “F”. Also, it is worth noting that, ultimately, municipalities are creatures of the province, so if they are continuing with “not in my backyard” policies, the province can and must step in, as has been done in Alberta.

With respect to Build Canada Homes, we appreciate the government's intention of aligning all things housing under one roof. The trick here, of course, will be how it will work and whether or not the government can be nimble and effective. Choosing Ana Bailão to lead BCH is an inspired choice.

New housing supply must be a priority. Bill C-4's inclusion of housing affordability measures is a serious step in the right direction and must be supported. Measures must be expanded, and policies and programs must be adjusted as required. Housing supply should not be a partisan issue. The various levels of government need to be aligned on this, as it affects other policy-related matters.

We need to get the dream of a better life back on track and help our young, who have, frankly, been let down in the extreme.

Thank you for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Lyall, and thank you to all of our witnesses for their opening remarks.

I want to let witnesses know that Mr. Cape is temporarily off-line and we are working to get him back.

In the meantime, the first round of questioning goes to Ms. Cobena.

You have six minutes.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Lyall.

Would a Canadian who lost her home as a result of the affordability crisis and who is now trying to re-enter the market benefit from the GST rebate?

[Richard Lyall]

Yes.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

What if it's not a first-time homebuyer?

[Richard Lyall]

Then the answer is no.

I'm sorry. I'm focused on first-time homebuyers.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

So the answer is no.

Would a single mother who sold her home—because of a divorce, for instance—benefit from the GST rebate?

[Richard Lyall]

If she's not a first-time homebuyer, no, she wouldn't.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Would seniors who are looking to downsize to a smaller unit, thereby freeing up a family home, benefit from the GST rebate?

[Richard Lyall]

No.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Would a young couple who are looking to sell their condo and move to a townhouse to start a family benefit from the GST rebate?

[Richard Lyall]

No.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

This GST rebate policy discriminates against people based solely on the fact that they have had a home. It does not take into consideration their life circumstances. Would you agree with that?

[Richard Lyall]

Yes.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Development charges can be responsible for about 30% of the cost of a new home. Would you agree with that?

[Richard Lyall]

We did two studies on this. The first one was 31%; then we updated it to 36%. That's all taxes, fees and levies, including DCs. Depending on where you are, DCs have been set differently in different municipalities. In Ontario, at any rate, DCs are around 20%.

The other fact I would bring up is that the Tarion report, which is the new homeowner report on new housing produced, set first-time homebuyers—and this is why we think this is worth supporting—at 39% of buyers in 2024. That's for new housing.

What we're interested in, of course, is that we need net new supply—not resale.