Evidence of meeting #19 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dfo.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:55 a.m.
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
You get this effect. It's a trap, yes.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
I appreciate you clarifying that.
Coming back to the issue about high temperature, what we call HTTO that's proposed, this is a fourth-generation plant, I understand. Even in Ottawa here they're talking about building a gasification plant for garbage. These things operate at extremely high temperature.
11:55 a.m.
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
A thousand degrees.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
I understand for this one you're talking 1,000 degrees. I understand in Ottawa they're talking about something that goes as high as 8,000 degrees, which basically takes everything down to its molecular level.
Your concern—at these temperatures we're talking about here of 1,000 degrees, or 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit—is that some very toxic elements are still going to escape. I see the researcher has pulled down some figures here that they are operating at 90% to 99% efficiency. If you're talking about 1% emissions that are still hydrocarbons or chlorinated molecules, furans, is what you're concerned about the 1% that's not processed?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
As I understand it, some of these high-tech smokestacks actually draw it back in and reprocess it at high temperature. Can you comment on the technology with this plant? Are you not satisfied with efficiency levels?
Noon
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
It's not been proven, has it, in St. Ambroise?
Noon
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
St. Ambroise, Quebec, is a site where Bennett Environmental operates what is called Récupère Sol Inc., RSI. It is another one of these high thermal oxidizer facilities. In the fall of 2004, I believe, the Quebec government issued an order for the plant to undergo some changes to its practices, because they found dioxins to be elevated in the vicinity of the plant. Obviously the plant wasn't working properly.
Noon
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Is this the same type of plant, the same generation and technology?
Noon
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Okay. How long has that one been in operation in Quebec?
Noon
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
It has been since 1997.
Noon
Conservative
Noon
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
As I said, they were required to amend their practices and do some more monitoring. I have a copy of that. An ordinance was issued forcing the company to take certain measures, because the amount of dioxins in the vicinity of the plant had risen to something like six or seven times acceptable Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment soil quality levels.
Noon
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Was it the province that caused action to be taken, or was it the federal environmental—
Noon
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Can I come back to the question of the intakes on those plants? If you are concerned about healthier fish, that's one thing, but now we're seeing the loss of tremendous volumes of productive fishing area. What remedies are available? What do you propose technologically that would remedy the situation?
Noon
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
One of the things I have told DFO is that they need to call for a science assessment process. They're called RAPs, regional advisory process, which I have participated in. They're peer-reviewed science processes that begin to examine what can be done and what is being done in other jurisdictions to address these intakes. It's not a new problem. It's just not a problem that DFO science has turned its mind to, which is remarkable.
Again under right to information, I have obtained the documents of DFO scientists who said that the levels of larval fish taken into the intake pipes are significant enough to perhaps have an effect on local fish populations, the long-term viability of local fish stocks.
Noon
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
“Perhaps” was a word there.
How long has the power plant been in operation?
Noon
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
It has been in operation since 1994.
Noon
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
What's happening now? We heard nasty things about the crab in Belledune, and so on, that have to be incinerated—and the lobsters.
What are fishermen reporting in the Baie des Chaleurs? Are there changes in catches? Is there a decrease in the quantity and quality of your catches?
Noon
Fisheries Advisor, Acadian Regional Federation of Professional Fishermen Inc.
Fisheries management techniques have improved over the years. Studies are conducted on fish stocks and a determination is made as to what part of the stocks can be harvested. This allows fishermen and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to help boost and improve the health of the stocks. However, we must not neglect the factors that have an adverse impact on initiatives aimed at improving the stocks.
12:05 p.m.
Science Advisor, Conservation Council of New Brunswick Inc.
Herring populations are down; capelin populations are down; cod fishery, which there was, is gone; lobster fishery is down; scallop fishery, the natural fishery is so depleted they are now looking at enhancement methods to try to bring back scallops. Numerous species are in decline in the Baie des Chaleurs.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy
Thank you, Mr. Lunney.
Could I clarify two points? The first one is on the gypsum deposit, or calcium sulphate. There must be a way to take that out of the pipe before it gets into the ocean. Does no mitigation occur there? Gypsum in itself is not a pollutant.