Fisheries Committee on Nov. 21st, 2006

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

So the value of the reserve would be...?

[Cal Hegge]

It would be $5 million.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Mr. Matthews or Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

You say in slide 4 that $73 million has been added to the main estimates. Is that correct?

[Cal Hegge]

Yes, that's the increase, main over main.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

And slide 8 shows more or less how that's going to be spent?

[Cal Hegge]

Yes. Basically, that's the notional distribution of how the funds will be spent. But that, of course, relates to the higher amount, which includes the supplementary estimates, still not appropriated.

Slide 8, for example, shows the expenditures for the additional amount of the $250 million or $260 million that we're requesting through supplementary estimates. But the distribution of how the funds are spent would be roughly the same.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It would be roughly as indicated on slide 8?

[Cal Hegge]

That's correct.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

And that indicates that you're going to spend $96.6 million on small craft harbours. That's on repairs.

[Cal Hegge]

That's right, except, as the deputy alluded to, whenever there's capital slippage, as there is occasionally in a budget the size of ours, small craft harbours can take additional money towards the end of the fiscal year. So this is our planned spending at the moment, but my guess is it will probably be higher in the final analysis.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What was it last year?

[Cal Hegge]

What was it last year? That's a good question. I don't have that. We can find that out for you.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'd like to know. It's my recollection that the minister indicated there was a substantial sum of money added to small craft harbours. Was it $20 million or something like that?

[Larry Murray]

Eleven million dollars out of the $99 million was added. In other words, when we got the $99 million increased or A-based, we tried to move the majority of it to enforcement, to science, to things like the coast guard vessel time and small craft harbours. So $11 million of the $99 million went to small craft harbours.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

More or less, then, considering the estimates that I see before me, the motion that came before the House and was supported by the Prime Minister and the Minister of Fisheries has absolutely no bearing on these estimates.

[Larry Murray]

At the moment, that is correct. As for other activities of this committee, I think your views and the views of the House on funding would be something that obviously would be taken into account as we try to move the yardstick forward in a variety of areas, including that of small craft harbours. I think the difference would be that from the perspective of the department's estimate, we believe that to do an adequate job of maintaining the core harbours, our estimate is that it would require the $96 million--in other words, not sunsetting the $20 million--and an additional $35 million.

So there are two $35 million pieces in play that we confuse ourselves on: one is the $35 million that was passed in the House, which I think expressed clearly the concerns about this program. We believe, because of inflation, construction costs, and various other things, that $130 million would be a more appropriate funding level for this program to adequately cover the capital, personnel, and all that stuff.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Thank you, Mr. Murray.

You're out of time, Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

This is an important issue, Mr. Chairman. You could have given me another five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

I would agree, and you should have taken the entire ten minutes on it, instead of splitting your time.

Monsieur Blais.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I would invite Mr. MacAulay to listen closely because that is probably the issue I will address.

Good morning, lady and gentlemen.

To continue in that vein, as far as small craft harbours are concerned, I will try to proceed methodically. On the one hand, the $20 million funding comes to an end this year; on the other hand, a supplementary budget of $11 million has been announced.

You know as well as I do that the numbers presented by your department show that an additional $470 million are needed. Money is also needed for the Small Craft Harbours Divestiture Grants Program, which has run out of money.

Let me proceed point by point.

First, as far as the divestiture program is concerned, the supplementary budget does not contain any additional funds. Or am I mistaken and additional funding is indeed provided? If so, how much? What do you intend to do with the divestiture program?

Lastly, unless I'm mistaken, you already mentioned that the program needs an additional $60 million.

[Larry Murray]

As far as the divestiture program is concerned, I think that for now we are trying to make do with the current budget. Over the last few years, about $1.5 million were provided for the program to reduce the number of small harbours for which the federal government is responsible. Our position is that we will need about $82 million over five years to settle the issue. I think there is a business case to justify what we want to do.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

What does "business case" mean?

[Larry Murray]

It means that if we manage to achieve our goals within five years, taxpayers will save money in the long run.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Fine. Does the amount of $82 million which you have just mentioned represent the amount to be spent each year, or is that the total amount for the five years? Is it the five-year total?