Fisheries Committee on March 22nd, 2007

[Bob Baziuk]

Okay. I just want to point out that the management of these harbours is under a lease, and the lease clearly stipulates what the Crown is responsible for and what the harbour authority is responsible for. We're doing our part for the day-to-day things. We're asking where the rest is, where that commitment is, if I may put it thus.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

We've been criticizing this for a number of years now. Will we have to sue the department on the basis that it is not carrying out its mandate and that, consequently, there is a danger? You talk about the frustration of volunteers, but I'd also like you to tell me about safety. We talk about that a lot because the department eventually announces its ultimate decision, that, when things go poorly on the dock, they put up a fence. That's the response, as a result of which, ultimately nothing changes. Ultimately, safety becomes a pretext for doing nothing. I imagine that also adds to your frustration.

[Osborne Burke]

Putting up the fence or the barricade is a temporary stopgap measure to keep people, I guess, from injuring themselves. If the wharf is deteriorating to the point that it has to be barricaded, the temporary solution is to put the barricade up, but there has to be a longer-term solution found.

You mentioned legal action. I don't think I would see it getting to that point. What I see is a really good program and a number of volunteers whose frustration level is to the point of wondering why they should do this any longer, why they should put up with this, if they're not seeing the dollars invested back into the program.

Talking about these dollars, I remind everybody again that this money doesn't allow for doing anything where we have overcrowding at harbours and where we need to put new investment in. We're talking about just maintaining what we have. To avoid the barricades and to avoid the wharves being closed, we need that $55 million on an annual basis to at least maintain what we have. Above and beyond that, whether for divestiture or new expansion, a separate pot of money has to be addressed.

So frustration is there, and we don't want to see the volunteers—because they do have a lease—saying, “To hell with it; I'm going to walk away”, and everybody suffering. You have to appreciate that in a lot of these communities—it's no different in my situation—even if you go on ten volunteer groups, you probably see the same faces, and they're getting tired.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the time.

[Luc LeGresley]

We can look at the present situation differently. You're entirely right; there is frustration. A few years ago, I had to face the frustration of all the harbour authorities in Quebec. It's the same thing in all the other regions. You must know that, if the harbour authorities were not there, your members would have to respond to all users, who would tell you that their harbour isn't working and would ask you to find money. What would happen then?

We're now receiving calls. If we leave tomorrow, you'll have to respond to all your taxpayers. For some time now, I've been saying—which may sound a bit funny—that the situation of the small craft harbours is so disastrous that management can no longer even afford to pay for fences. What will happen soon? That's somewhat what we're saying. I think it's important to go and also see the quality of the people in the fishing harbours. These are ordinary citizens who have given a lot for their region, and today it's like a small retirement for them. However, I think they would be happier if they were retired instead of working for the small craft harbours.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Thank you.

I'll warn you that with the interpretation, you have to speak just a bit slower. All of us are guilty of the same thing, but we've been trained.

[Luc LeGresley]

They used to say that to me also.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

We'll allow for just one final comment from Mr. Kamp, the parliamentary secretary to the minister.

We are out of time. It's one o'clock, and I have to be somewhere else, and the deputy chair and the deputy deputy chair are not here. We're going to have one more question, and whoever wants may take it.

[An hon. member]

We'll be glad to chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

You can ask questions after I adjourn.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Maybe we can stay informally.

I just wanted to offer three brief clarifications. The $20 million wasn't announced earlier because it hasn't yet been officially announced, but the minister and the department thought it would be important that this committee know about it, in light of the discussion we're having with our guests.

The department has also assured us that if any capital funds become available throughout the course of the year in other areas, they will be shifted over into small craft harbours.

Third, the minister is continuing to work with the central agencies to obtain more funding for this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Do you have a quick comment, Mr. Lunney, or a question?

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

What about me?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Your name is not on the list.

You know what, gentlemen? I'm sure these three gentlemen, doing their jobs as well as they have, would be happy to stay and speak to parliamentarians and answer as long as you want, but we're out of committee time.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

While we're still on the record, I want to put in a protest here. If we're cutting the meeting short, we should redistribute the time so that some of the government members have a chance to participate in the bloody meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

I appreciate that, Mr. Lunney, and I understand, but there's really not a lot I can do about it when Mr. MacAulay and Mr. Blais continue to go over time.

If you have a quick question, ask it--or you can ask it later.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

I have a quick question I can ask--

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Well, let me say this first.

I appreciate the way you guys have come in here with some very good information for us. I appreciate the theme, “creating the future together”. And your concern about burnout is a very real one. We have to take this more seriously. It's great to have volunteers taking on the responsibilities, but they can't do it without a measure of support. So I think you have the attention of the committee. We want to see that we do something to make sure you get more money into that.

I do want to ask a question. We have a very serious issue on the coast, and I want to give Mr. Baziuk a chance to respond with regard to the concerns I hear coming from the Fraser River small craft harbours. You have a big investment there, and we have a very serious issue this year with a huge snowpack. And because.... I heard dredging mentioned. We haven't been doing dredging adequately for the last number of years. The infrastructure of these small craft harbours might well be at risk this year.

Would you care to comment on that?

[Bob Baziuk]

I appreciate the time.

Very quickly, yes, it's a real issue out there. Putting dredging aside, the snowpacks up there, with the velocity of water that could come down, could severely jeopardize the infrastructure of the biggest commercial fishing harbour in Canada, just because of the debris that comes down the Fraser with that velocity of water. We already have a contingency plan to host other vessels in smaller harbours.

I hope that answers your question.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Mr. Chair, I have one quick question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

You have to be quick.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Maybe we should start on time, at 11 o'cock, when we give this presentation one hour.

Anyway, I'd like to thank you for your presentation. I think it was excellent.

I deal with 60 harbour authorities in my riding of Avalon, Newfoundland, out of 227 communities. They are wonderful volunteers; some are nice and pleasant, others get a bit upset and holler when they're not getting their funding. But we are making headway.

I want to ask you about divestiture, because it's a big issue in my riding. I realize that a very small amount of the funding this year will go towards divestiture. Have you any idea, or have you costed out--I'm sure you have—what divestiture will cost in Canada at the present time?

[Osborne Burke]

That question would probably be better answered by Fisheries and Oceans. The only number that I can recall being presented with somewhere was $88 million, something in that range. But for a firm confirmation on the latest number, I'd suggest Fisheries and Oceans would be the best ones to ask.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

All right. Thank you.

[Luc LeGresley]

We all have to ask ourselves one question today, in view of the fact that time is running short. How can we ask all our volunteers to continue working so hard, when the money isn't there? How can we convince them to stay? We hope that the government will invest the necessary money to prevent these people from leaving the program. We have to ask ourselves this question, and the government has to send out a clear message. Give us a little time, be patient; failing that, you're going to lose people. We can do what we want, but I believe that will be impossible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Thank you to our witnesses. We appreciate your coming here today.

Most of us represent large fishery ridings, with a lot of wharves, a lot of infrastructure, a lot of fishermen to deal with. I appreciate the difficulty you face with fishermen on the wharves when you're trying to collect your fees, and I hope you appreciate how difficult it is to keep our membership down to the ten minutes, seven minutes, or five minutes they've been allocated so that everyone gets a chance to ask a question.

Certainly I speak on behalf of the committee when I say that we recognize the difficult situation that the harbour authorities are in with regard to getting funding from governments. I know the $20 million that's now under the budget, the A-base funding, is needed. We realize, every one of us, from all the parties, that there is work to be done. The difficulty is finding that long-term funding and getting that long-term funding put in place.

I thank you for coming. I'm sure the members who had lots of questions, who needed more time, are going to stay and ask questions. Hopefully you'll be able to stay to answer them.

I'm going to adjourn the meeting. Thank you very much.