On the question—
Evidence of meeting #59 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was countries.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #59 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was countries.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
I'm mixing two industries, I understand, but....
Noon
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
Yes. On whether government users of airports or small craft harbours should pay, I think absolutely, yes, of course, they should pay. Why not?
Noon
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
I don't know. Good question. I don't have the answer.
I was aware of it at airports, but it hasn't been an issue that someone has raised with me recently. But, yes, I would see no reason why they should not pay, just because the federal government is an owner of the facility. The collection of fees and the daily operations have been delegated to the authorities, so I think they should pay, whether that's an airport or a harbour.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Do other countries have mechanisms by which to provide support?
12:05 p.m.
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
They have mechanisms, and we describe those in the report. Whether they charge coast guard, ambulance service, Medevac service, I don't know about that.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
My understanding is if a NATO aircraft lands at, say, Gatwick airport, the government of the U.K. will provide a grant to Gatwick airport through the department of transportation, not necessarily for that particular landing, but support money, because they provide a service.
12:05 p.m.
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
That could be the case. I don't know.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Going back to the pride in ownership issue, do you know of an example where the more invested by the local group...? I know you favour the concept, but are there examples in this country or others where you've seen that in practice, where because they have more ownership in this particular venture or they provide more of the money, you can see the fruits of their labour more so than the wharf across the bay that doesn't do that?
12:05 p.m.
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
I can't give examples for small craft harbours. I can give some general examples in smaller airports, where small airports have done a remarkable job of improving their facilities. And I'm talking small airports; I'm not talking the large airports, like Ottawa or Toronto or Montreal. I could talk about some of the airports. Deer Lake comes to mind. I'm quite impressed with what they've done and how they've managed to improve their operations.
We helped them back in the days when they were considering taking over the airport, and we came up with some recommendations on how they should staff and organize. I had an opportunity to talk to them just last week on another study, because I was looking at staffing an organization at another small airport, and they're running a very efficient, lean operation that under the federal government would have been unheard of.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
12:05 p.m.
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
I think financial pressures, the pressures of financial viability, ingenuity to do those things. I was really impressed. I didn't think it could be done. They reduced their workforce probably by a third.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
But that wasn't the only reason why. They chased revenue, I'm sure.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
But what about from government? Was there less reliance on government programs?
12:05 p.m.
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
I think less reliance on government and more reliance on making this operation work at a local level, and they're doing it.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Bill Matthews
Excuse me, Mr. Simms, but we have to switch you off. You're well over.
Mr. Asselin.
12:05 p.m.
Bloc
Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC
I would like to continue for the committee's benefit and for mine.
You told the committee that, in 1999, your consulting firm received a contract from Fisheries and Oceans Canada for about $25,000. You prepared a report in which you made no recommendations. You also told the committee that you did not travel, that you did not go and see the state of harbour infrastructure in the countries mentioned, their level of management and how they run their small craft harbours. As I understand it, everything was done by telephone, and the report then reflected your telephone conversations.
Here is the question that concerns me. At that time, in 1999, what was Fisheries and Oceans Canada`s interest in having a telephone survey done to find out about small craft harbours in other countries? Could an official from the department not have done the same work? I have a hard time understanding that. I was sure that you had visited those places and that you had met people there, because in your presentation you mentioned that you had been impressed by officials and by harbour managers. I had the impression that, as a reputable company mandated to see what was happening in other countries, you would have gone to them.
Mr. Chair, I see that this is absolutely not what we were expecting this morning. Personally, I expected that the company had gone overseas to observe, but now I see that this was done by telephone. That takes away a lot of the report's credibility; in terms of this committee's work, we can take it or leave it.
12:10 p.m.
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
As I said before, it's done on the phone. The budget did not allow for travel. It was of high interest to DFO officials at the time. They were very pleased with what we had done within the limited budget, and yes, I can be impressed by someone on the phone after I've had probably a half-hour or maybe one-hour conversation with them. They answered questions well. They understood their funding mechanisms, and some of them gave me very positive general impressions.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Gérard Asselin Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Would you agree with me that one of the priorities of an official from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, which is charged with managing small craft harbours in Canada, would be to see what is happening overseas? Could this task have been done by someone inside the Department of Fisheries and Oceans? Did an official simply hand over his authority when he handed over a $25,000 contract?
12:10 p.m.
Director, Jacobs Consultancy Canada Inc.
Yes, that's right. It depends. You'd have to talk to the department. They were very interested in having the study done. There may have been a lack of resources internally to do the study. For all kinds of reasons, they hired us. They wanted to review their role at that time, and it was one piece of information that they were using in their deliberations and planning. We were just a very small part of that.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
June 5th, 2007 / 12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have just a quick question for you, Mr. Bol. I appreciate your coming here today and helping us with our study.
I'm very curious. Could you just elaborate more for me on the way the system is set up in Norway and in the Scandinavian countries? I believe you said that the small craft harbours were not owned by the central government. Were they privately owned? Were they owned by municipalities? Is it a mixture of those? Could you just elaborate on that a little bit for me and give me a clear picture?
Mr. Cuzner asked a few questions in regard to the amount of coastline we have in comparison, but the reality is that we're only dealing with populated coastlines, and when you look at the amount of populated coastline we have in Canada versus the populated coastline in Norway, it would seem to me that would be our logical most comparative country out of the ones you've analyzed in your report. Could you just verify if that's true, if my hunch is correct on that, and just provide me any other information that you think might be helpful for the model that's used there and how we should be doing things here in Canada?