Fisheries Committee on Nov. 21st, 2007

[Luc Legresley]

For my harbour authority, and most of the authorities in the Quebec region, they are volunteers. Some people might be doing some other job, but most of them are volunteers. To be able to be part of what they call the original committee, they have to first of all be part of the harbour authority and volunteer. They cannot be working for the harbour authority.

After that, in the Quebec region, we are eight people coming from four sectors. Those eight people form what they call the regional harbour authority or the regional advisory committee. Then, from these eight people, there are three people who are elected or appointed to be part of the national committee.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

So in this stereotypical harbour authority, every fish harvester who uses that harbour becomes a member of that. When you refer to volunteers, are they that group of people, these 50 fish harvesters? Is that your group of volunteers? Or are there some other people who are simply community minded who might volunteer for you as well?

[Morris Fudge]

Not really. In our area there are doctors on the board of our committee. The way this was set up, whoever was at the first meeting you had when you formed a harbour authority automatically became a member.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

That means I could become a member of a harbour authority without being a fisherman or using the harbour.

[Morris Fudge]

Yes. All you do is write a letter to the chair of the committee and they would see if you would be accepted onto it. You would then become a member on the board.

[Osborne Burke]

Some harbours, though, are limited to commercial fishing, because that's the primary operation. Some will include recreational; some will have associate memberships for the greater community. There's more of a recognition of that, because it doesn't begin and stop with just the fish harvesters; the whole community depends on that, and it becomes the central point of activity.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[Luc Legresley]

I think there's something else we have to consider.

We had the occasion to go around all the harbour authorities within the Quebec region because of the situation presently with the lack of funds and so on. We had a lot of problems finding volunteer people to be part of the harbour authority. As of now, I know there are some harbour authorities that have maybe one or two people who are taking care of the wharves; those people are getting tired and don't want to be part of the harbour authority. We are telling them to stay there and that maybe something will be coming, but if there is not a strong message coming from the government, I think we might be losing a lot of people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Kamp.

As a point of interest, I was one of the founding members of the harbour authority in my own community of St. Bride's. You could put what fish I've caught in the bathtub, but I was very interested in the community as a whole, and that's why I became a member of the harbour authority.

Mr. Calkins is next.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being here today, and thank you to everybody else who is supporting you as well.

As a member of this committee who does not have a coast, I'm very much interested in the freshwater aspect. I know Mr. Benson has had other obligations, so I'll probably direct most of my questions to you, Mr. Tomasson.

In looking at the base budget and the regional breakdowns, we see that the central and arctic region, which is large enough to be the fifth-largest country in the world, gets proportionally the least amount of the budget. Given the fact that so many of those harbours are probably of mixed use, could you explain to me, for my benefit and for the committee's benefit, whether you feel it is proportional? I'm not trying to drive a wedge or anything here between your colleagues, but is it fair, based on the amount of work and effort it takes to maintain freshwater harbours?

Obviously you're not dealing with some of the same issues you're dealing with on the coast, but you will have ice and you will have dredging issues, I would imagine, in some of these places. Could you comment on some of the challenges being faced specifically by those in the freshwater areas?

[David Tomasson, As an Individual]

To answer your question, in our region we have generally felt that we were underfunded. We've raised this constantly. My colleagues here are going to get tired of hearing me repeat it, but yes, we felt that in our region we were underfunded. We recognize, though, that money is limited.

We've raised it many times from our region to the federal government, and they've made some adjustments.

I have to say that the whole program got some money from the fatigue moneys. They never broke that down according to our formula under the budget; they shared it equally among all the regions. We were very pleased with that. They did seem to recognize that we had the same problem as any other region, and they made some positive amendments or changes, but we still feel we are underfunded.

I may also add that not many people think there's much of a commercial fishery in the prairie provinces, and that's maybe how the formula originally came about, but Lake Winnipeg alone is I think the twelfth-largest freshwater lake in the world. It's a very dangerous, treacherous lake. As Bruce mentioned, the harbour program is very important to us. The majority of our fishers by far are, I would say, aboriginal or native fishers. For a lot of our harbours the infrastructure money is crucial to us.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

When it comes to the mandate of the small craft harbours program, the vision statement expressly says that it's there to support the commercial fishery, but I've heard some testimony here today indicating that these harbours and wharves, or whatever else, are used for recreational purposes. By “recreational”, do you mean recreational boaters, or do you mean recreational fishers, or do you mean commercial sport fishers? There is a bit of a difference there.

I am also curious, from a liability perspective, does the harbour authority have to take out insurance for people using these wharves? Can you elaborate a little about what some of the trials and tribulations of that have been? As demand for usage increases or broadens, what are some of the obstacles you may see there?

[David Tomasson]

Basically, by far the majority of our harbours in our central and arctic region are used by commercial fishers. In all instances there are recreational boaters who use the harbours, but to a much lesser degree—in our region, anyway.

As for the insurance, it was a very big issue for all of us in the program, because we didn't have third-party liability as well as other insurance, not only for the directors but for employees or volunteers or whoever, and we were able to get it. We worked with the federal government.

We do it on our own. We don't get the money from the federal government; we pay for it. It's a cost-shared formula; we contribute. But we have insurance now, which we just had implemented in the last year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

We're doing a second round now of five minutes for each of the parties.

Mr. Matthews, do you have a question?

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I want to welcome our witnesses, especially Mr. Fudge from the great riding of Random—Burin—St. George's. It's nice to see you, Morris.

I've spent more time as a member of Parliament on small craft harbours issues than I have on anything else in the 10 years I've been here. I have a coastal riding that's fishery-dominated, with a lot of harbours and a lot of problems.

I think all members of the committee recognize in the testimony we've heard to date that there's certainly a need for significant infusion of dollars into the small craft harbours program—that's not in question.

The regions usually prioritize the list for funding on an annual basis; then it's sent up here. As harbour authorities, do you feel that the people you represent have adequate access to small craft harbours staff? Do you feel that you're fairly treated by the regional people—the directors general and their staff—in your funding requirements? Do you think there's fairness in the assessment of problems and in how the priority list is done?

[Morris Fudge]

Bill, I'd say for the Newfoundland region—and I'm talking about the Newfoundland region—we have excellent cooperation with the small craft harbours program. In our district it's not the problem.

The problem is that in our area we have 225 harbours, with 205 harbour authorities operating 225 harbours. The problem is not with the small craft harbours program. We don't have a problem with them; I must say that. They do it as fairly as they can, under the circumstances, with what they have to do it with.

I heard Fabian say last week that he needed $40 million in his area—on the Connaigre Peninsula they need $40 million just for aquaculture—and we get $27 million approximately.

So, no, we don't have a problem with the small craft harbours program; the problem is we just don't have the money to do the work.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

I ask that question because as members of Parliament we have continuous representations made to us about respective harbour needs. Of course, we liaise and communicate with small craft harbours regional offices as well. I just wondered what your impression was.

You represent the harbour authorities in Newfoundland and Labrador; that's what you're doing here. I just wondered what the general feeling of those harbour authority representatives from around our province would be as regards the relationship. Do they feel they're treated fairly and adequately in terms of access and of making the priority list? If you don't make the region's priority list, then you're not going to be funded.

That's the only reason I had. I'm not playing down the need for more money—we need every dollar that Mr. Byrne said and more—but I wondered what your feelings were on this. I appreciate your honesty.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

We have time for Mr. McGuire, if you're sharing what's left of your time with Mr. McGuire.

You have time for one question. You're under two minutes.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I want five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

You're not going to get it; I'm sorry.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Well, thank you for the two minutes, Mr. Chairman.

I've been around long enough to see the old way it was done and the new way, and I think the new way is far and away the better way. The fishermen have more pride in their place of work, they take much more interest, and I think it's a better situation all around.

Before, there would be planks missing from a harbour, and they were scared that kids were going to fall in. But there was nobody around to repair, to put in a couple of planks; it just wasn't done. I think the harbours overall are in much better shape now that the fishermen have gotten involved and have put pressure on to get repairs done.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask maybe two people this question: who pays for the operation of the authority itself? I know the fishermen put moorage fees in. I was wondering whether, besides the fishermen, the province is involved. I know they're getting involved in other aspects of the federal jurisdiction in fisheries, but are they involved and helping out at all, Morris and Luke? Or is any other federal department involved in the operation of any of your harbours in your zones?

[Morris Fudge]

We charge the companies, the fish buyers, that come in to the wharves. This is where most of our revenue comes from; when the fish buyer comes in to the wharf, we charge them a quarter of a cent per pound for everything that comes over the wharf.

Then the fishermen have their berthage. We have berthage for fishermen.

This is where most of our revenue comes from for the operation of the harbours and minor maintenance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Mr. Legresley.

[Luc Legresley]

Yes, please.

What we also have to realize at this time is that we are facing a lot of problems. For example, in the Magdalen Islands--just one harbour authority--they have to find $25,000 to get rid of the garbage.

They are also facing increased municipal taxes. Our harbour authority is going to have to find $22,000 from the fishermen. How are they going to find it?