Evidence of meeting #3 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Luc Legresley
No. I had some discussion with Nathalie Normandeau, who is the minister for the Quebec region, municipalities, and she is willing to talk about the municipal taxes and maybe do something for us, but that's about it as of now.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
There's a better chance of getting a wharf than getting more time.
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Given that I am a new member on the committee, I will be sharing my time, which I do not have much of, with my colleague.
My view is that the number of volunteers working in this area is phenomenal and that they account for an awful lot of time. We know that, in 2005, a study indicated that Canada was saving some 7 billion dollars thanks to volunteer work. Taking into account inflation, we may now be up to 8 billion dollars. We could perhaps adopt a motion granting you 10% of these 8 billion dollars.
The Department presently applies a formula that takes into account five criteria in the distribution of the funds. You are familiar with it. Could you comment on this formula?
Vice-Chair, Quebec, National Harbour Authority Advisory Committee
That is a very delicate issue. Do not forget that there is a budget and that several criteria are applied in its distribution. If tomorrow it was decided to grant me one million dollars, I would be forced to take this million dollars away from another region. That is unfortunate.
In 2005, the Quebec region decided to exert tremendous pressure on the government. We told the government that if we did not receive more money, it would be game over. We would simply withdraw. What did that result in? The Quebec region and the Central and Arctic region received $500,000 extra, on top of the budgetary envelope. The message I received is clear. I am prepared to exert further pressure as early as tomorrow, and it does not bother me whatsoever to tell the government my way of thinking in order to obtain one million dollars for harbour authorities overall and to not penalize the other regions. Why take money away from other regions to give it to that of Quebec or to the Central and Arctic region, whose present financial situation is disastrous? That is not right. The government has already found $500,000 for the Quebec region and $500,000 for the Central and Arctic region. Why could it not find a little bit more money in order to help us?
If it is not ready to do so, sorry, but it is obvious that the Quebec region will react, because we are in need of money. Sixty percent of our expenditures are for dredging. That is inconceivable. But that is the situation, and that is without taking into account the asides that you are not aware of. You should spend one week in each fishing harbour and administer them. You would find that fishers would talk to you, would tell you that they want money and would lay out their problems before you. You would understand the situation. You have to go into the field.
For 12 years now, I have sat on the municipal council of the second most important city of the Gaspé and I have never seen a government devote as little attention to fishing harbours. In our regional county municipality, there are seven important fishing harbours and the money is just not there. It is the same thing in the Magdalen Islands and in any other region. As an elected municipal politician, I am disappointed. And I am being very polite in my choice of words. When we talk about the regions, in Newfoundland or elsewhere, we are not talking about big cities but about small regions. The federal government could inject a given amount of money, and that would help the economy of these regions. They are on the decline, and, today, we are seeing a reduction in the amounts allocated. Why would the government not invest in fishing harbours, in order to help fishers and the economy of the regions? But it does not do so.
As an elected municipal representative, I am extremely frustrated and unhappy with the elected federal representatives, because they are abandoning the regions. As proof of this, I would mention the fact that they are no longer even there for the post offices and fishing harbours. If that is what they want, we will not vote for them, we will simply vote at the provincial level. That has become my philosophy. It is frustrating and there are a lot of people today who think like me. The federal government is not present in the regions. We are talking about the poorest of regions. I apologize for my frustration, but that is what is happening right now.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Mr. Chairman, I will now give the floor to my colleague, from the second largest municipality in the Gaspé.
Conservative
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
I too will say my frustration and conclude with these words.
Yes, we will provide a report and continue to exert pressure. For my part, I have for several years now been exerting pressure on the various governments in order for them to invest more money. I believe we are now at the stage where there will need to be broader mobilization and much more intense and sustained action in order to have visibility, in order that there be sufficient funding in the next budget for the small craft harbours file. When we talk about sufficient funding, we are not talking about 35 million dollars more per year, but of a minimum of 100 million dollars extra per year over a long period of time. In that sense, and in order to achieve that, there is a need for broad mobilization.
As you are aware, there are farmers from the West and elsewhere who come here with their tractors. I am not saying that people will have to come here with their infrastructure, but, somewhere, there will have to be this broader mobilization in order to succeed in influencing the present government.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Thank you, Mr. Blais.
It'll be very interesting to see the boats lined up on Wellington Street.
We'll go to Ms. Bell.
NDP
Catherine Bell NDP Vancouver Island North, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Well, I think last year, when I was a new MP here, I saw a bunch of tractors in the first couple of weeks of my shift. So I don't see why we couldn't have the boats here. The river comes all the way.
I must say that it's very refreshing to hear from the people who do the actual work on the ground in our communities taking care of our small craft harbours. What I've heard from this whole session is that a lot more money is needed--it seems to be the overarching theme here--to assist with volunteers, to assist with maintenance, to bring it up to speed, and for a whole lot more if we're ever thinking of building more. And then there's the dredging.
I just wonder, when we have a $14 billion surplus in federal coffers, why there was no mention of small craft harbours. The amount you need, really, $600 million out of that, isn't too much to ask for. It begs the question of what the government's priorities are in this.
Having said that, we know what happened, and we know we'll work towards the next budget, I suppose. I did ask a question about dredging, and I think we sort of got cut off in the last go-round of questions.
Mr. Legresley and Mr. Baziuk, you can answer if you can remember my question, or maybe just make some comments on that. I actually find this quite interesting.
Secretary, British Columbia, National Harbour Authority Advisory Committee
I'm sorry, I just can't quite recall the question.
NDP
Catherine Bell NDP Vancouver Island North, BC
I guess I was talking about the cost and how that relates to the figure that was mentioned, the $475 million for maintenance. Of the amounts you get every year, you're spending 60% on dredging, if the figures are realistic. I think Mr. Burke answered some of it. I know Mr. Legresley had something he wanted to say.
Luc Legresley
The figure I know is with regard to the other regions. Most of the budget from the Quebec region goes for dredging. In regard to the other regions, it could be between 10% and 15% of the budget. If you look at whatever figure you have, the Maritimes have a lot of money, but they need the money to get the work done. They have less dredging.
The problem is that the cost of dredging is getting so high. The direction the Quebec region is taking is that they're going to have to say they cannot spend more than $1.3 million per year on dredging. So what's going to happen if they cannot do the dredging at some of the wharves. That's the problem they are facing. They're going to have to have a number, saying that now they cannot spend more than that. That is the solution on the table. Does it make sense? I doubt it. So you may see that maybe, because the dredging is not done, it will be difficult for the boats to come to the wharf. Yes, we will be facing some problems in the near future.
It doesn't make sense that we have to say that we cannot spend more than that, and we are facing that.
Secretary, British Columbia, National Harbour Authority Advisory Committee
The costs of dredging can fluctuate based on things like fuel costs. Mobilization is huge. To mobilize a dredging rig you're probably looking at about $30,000 out of what comes your way. So there are other things that just add to it. It's a very expensive job.
Chairperson, Maritimes and Gulf, National Harbour Authority Advisory Committee
One other thing on dredging is that disposal of the spoils is becoming more and more of an issue all the time, whether there's any potential contamination in it and where you can dispose of it, and that is a major cost, never mind the environmental assessments and habitat and regulatory requirements that are required by law.
Luc Legresley
If you're asking for a solution, the way I see it--because I do represent the Quebec region--is, why don't they put money aside and say this money is for dredging for all regions and this is what it costs? Put it there, and then maybe they can use the formula in order to give the money to the region. We are facing a huge problem; some of the regions are not facing that problem.
Conservative
Conservative
NDP
Catherine Bell NDP Vancouver Island North, BC
You mentioned something about taxes, and maybe just for clarity I'd ask, are these municipal taxes that are being charged to the port authorities? Is that what you're having to come up with?
