Fisheries Committee on June 3rd, 2008

[Sylvain Paradis]

I can certainly guarantee that we want to work much more closely and continue to do so.

One thing I'd like to stress is that since the moratorium, ways to work more closely have been increasing consistently. We have the sentinel fisheries that are done by the fishermen providing information. With the Larocque issue, most of the projects are now being brought forward by industry people jointly with DFO. Every effort to close the gap is being made. I think the fall meeting should be a very important moment to come to grips with what we want to do together.

[David Bevan]

Let me add one brief point.

These are decisions that have economic and social impacts. In the past, we've given ministers science advice. Now, when we have to make these kinds of tough calls, we make sure the minister has information regarding the impacts, how those impacts are distributed, and who is going to be affected most severely. These are not things we would ask a minister to decide without full information.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bill Matthews]

Mr. Allen.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for being here.

I have one question, but it has three parts.

The briefing document says professional groundfishers cannot understand why the scientists are so adamant despite repeated contestations from the fishers. The fishers base their reason for contesting on the lack of credibility given to them in the assessment methods used by DFO, despite the various observations and analysis.

When you extend that to say your advice is being gathered through landing statistics, phone interviews with fishermen, and your sentinel surveys, what I'd like to know is what weight is given to the fishers in finalizing your assessment? How extensive is the phone consultation that is done, and what is the type of data you're actually collecting? Third, is there any other data point, even from the fishers, that would give their estimates of biomass and would contradict DFO's?

[Sylvain Paradis]

Clearly, all the information is tabled, and some of it comes directly from the fishermen through the log book, landings, the bycatch, and so on. All of this information is on the table.

I would invite you to participate in one of those peer review meetings, which are very extensive, sometimes lasting a full week, where people present their information and are challenged. We invite international experts to look at the information.

The phone survey is done jointly with the industry. I don't know the extent of the questions, but it's been going on for multiple years now. There's a very sophisticated approach to doing it.

I'm a bit worried about the concept of the credibility of our scientists, of their not being there; of people not trusting our scientists. We have a very strong cadre of scientists. They're working nationally, they're being challenged internationally, and their information is being peer-reviewed. I think it's easy to claim that what they do is wrong, but the issue is more how we improve what's being done, if indeed it's wrong, and how we can correct it, if there are issues. But we haven't seen proof today that what our scientists have done is wrong.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Bill Matthews]

Are you finished now?

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

There's just my last question. Nobody commented on other data points on biomass. You have your estimates, but have there been any other estimates counter to that by fishers?

[Sylvain Paradis]

Yes. The sentinel survey, which is done by the industry people, is also a biomass index.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

And there are no numbers.... You have 36,000 tonnes. Is there any--

[Sylvain Paradis]

The 36,000 tonnes is all together. It's when all the information is being taken into account.

If you take the CSAS peer review report, you should have all the information about the sentinel survey, the fixed gears, the mobile gears, all the long lines, and so on. It gives you all of the indices that are being used.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Okay.

Thank you, Chair.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Thanks, Mr. Allen.

I want to thank Mr. Bevan and Mr. Paradis for sharing. We thoroughly enjoyed your presentation and your answers.

I want to thank committee members for their help as well.

The meeting is adjourned.